May 30, 12:00:27 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Well, you're also a well -known name!

May 30, 12:00:27 PDT> BrianR: ha

May 30, 12:00:27 PDT> Ruby: Everyone, please meet my fiance, BrianR.

May 30, 12:00:27 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Go, Audio Activist! :-)

May 30, 12:00:46 PDT> Emily: Hi all

May 30, 12:00:46 PDT> BrianR: this web based chat thingy is pretty nice

May 30, 12:00:57 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Ruby and Brian: Best wishes for a long happy life together!

May 30, 12:00:57 PDT> BrianR: thanx

May 30, 12:00:57 PDT> BrianR: :)

May 30, 12:00:57 PDT> Ruby: It's OK. It gets funky if youre idle.

May 30, 12:00:57 PDT> gtmcknight: is there a way to pop this window out? of the page?

May 30, 12:01:05 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Hi, Emily! Is this Emily W?

May 30, 12:01:05 PDT> Emily: yes

May 30, 12:01:05 PDT> Ruby: Thanks Deborah/C-Y!

May 30, 12:01:17 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: I'm not the best guess-er. But I got that right, Emily.

May 30, 12:01:17 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Welcome, EW.

May 30, 12:01:17 PDT> gtmcknight: ewww

May 30, 12:01:17 PDT> Emily: thanks

May 30, 12:01:17 PDT> Emily: just came to check this out

May 30, 12:01:30 PDT> gtmcknight: jk welcome :)

May 30, 12:01:56 PDT> Scott M: On firefox, I was able to right-click and open the frame into a new window.

May 30, 12:02:06 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Ethan says that NGOs don't have to lie as much. Hmm!

May 30, 12:02:10 PDT> Emily: what am I missing?

May 30, 12:02:26 PDT> BrianR: So I saw there was something on podcasting at Net2. how was it?

May 30, 12:02:31 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: I'm embarassed to say this, as someone who works in the ngo/npo sector, but I hear people lying all the time.

May 30, 12:02:39 PDT> gtmcknight: thanks scott

May 30, 12:02:49 PDT> Ruby: Great presentations from Dan Gilmor, guy from OhMyNews & Ethan Zuckerman, Emily..

May 30, 12:03:00 PDT> Emily: oh ok

May 30, 12:03:00 PDT> Ruby: Brian, they haven't even started the breakout sessions yet.

May 30, 12:03:25 PDT> BrianR: ah

May 30, 12:03:25 PDT> Ruby: We're still in the large plenaries.

May 30, 12:03:25 PDT> BrianR: OK

May 30, 12:03:58 PDT> Ruby: http://www.netsquared.org/conference/conference-schedule

May 30, 12:03:58 PDT> BrianR: how did the OhMyNews folks tie citjour into npo missions?

May 30, 12:04:11 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Has anyone seen a directory of conference attendees that includes email addresses?

May 30, 12:04:20 PDT> agenthandy: have fun! ttyl

May 30, 12:04:36 PDT> gtmcknight: thats a great idea... just translating citizen journalism from other countries into english

May 30, 12:04:45 PDT> Ruby: OhMyNews was about how regular people can share information and have a multi-directional flow of info instead of the one-way MSM.

May 30, 12:05:12 PDT> Rob: key takeaway from Ethan Zuckerman: "Don't speak. Point." Instead of advocating on others' behalf, point to what your constituents are saying (and ensure they have the tools to say it effectively)

May 30, 12:05:28 PDT> BrianR: kool

May 30, 12:05:40 PDT> Ruby: Ethan's whole excellent presentation is here: http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/?p=816

May 30, 12:06:11 PDT> BrianR: empowerment

May 30, 12:06:46 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Rob: This is terrific, but I wonder how many nonprofit managers I know would be willing to do that? They (the npo managers) want to control the message.\

May 30, 12:06:46 PDT> MSifry: it's great, i agree but he hasn't touched on what happens if no one in power is listening to all these new voices you're pointing to

May 30, 12:07:10 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.techsoup.org/howto/yourstories/training/page4316.cfm?cg=searc...

May 30, 12:07:10 PDT> BrianR: i belive a lot more people in power lurk that we suspect.

May 30, 12:07:10 PDT> Susan 10b: speaking of witness

May 30, 12:07:23 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.techsoup.org/howto/yourstories/training/page4316.cfm

May 30, 12:07:23 PDT> BrianR: than we suspect

May 30, 12:07:35 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.techsoup.org/fb/index.cfm?fuseaction=forums.showSingleTopic&f...

May 30, 12:07:43 PDT> Susan 10b: TS article and thread on witness

May 30, 12:07:55 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Brian: That would be very encouraging, if so.

May 30, 12:08:40 PDT> BrianR: If congressional staffers are trying to alter Wikipedia someone is lurking.

May 30, 12:08:40 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: See, Ethan is talking about how Amnesty doesn't want to have blogs because of the difficulties of making sure the messages are vetted.

May 30, 12:09:01 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: The alternative that Amnesty uses (which Ethan is describing) is great.

May 30, 12:10:31 PDT> MSifry: lurking isn't the same thing as being accountable to new voices

May 30, 12:11:30 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Well, we all have to hold the lurkers accountable, if the lurkers are also part of our legislative branch

May 30, 12:11:53 PDT> MSifry: i'm waiting for someone to reinvent government so listening is at the center of what it does

May 30, 12:12:10 PDT> BrianR: lurkers mindsets can be changed potentially causing new bills to be proposed or compromises to be made. yet there may not be a way to messure the effectivness on lurkers

May 30, 12:12:16 PDT> MSifry: and enabling people to connect to each other, point to problems AND solutions and together get things done

May 30, 12:12:46 PDT> Ruby: 90% of any website's audience are lurkers.

May 30, 12:14:23 PDT> Emily: which website?

May 30, 12:14:23 PDT> Ruby: It doesn't mean they're not engaged.

May 30, 12:14:23 PDT> Emily: I engaged with netsquared

May 30, 12:14:23 PDT> Ruby: I just mean in general.

May 30, 12:14:23 PDT> MSifry: i agree

May 30, 12:14:46 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: That's the biggest problem with electronic advocacy? How do you measure the impact of your campaign?

May 30, 12:14:46 PDT> BrianR: I want to know 'what do lurkers learn?'

May 30, 12:14:49 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: E.g., how many whales did you save with that web site / blog / email / text msging campaign?

May 30, 12:14:49 PDT> Emily: that's a good question about e-advocacy

May 30, 12:15:20 PDT> Ruby: I meet lots of peopel who read my website (OrangePolitics.org) avidly, but will never post a comment. They are still listening.

May 30, 12:15:21 PDT> gtmcknight: just because you don't actiively participate in the conversation doesnt mean you arent learning anything brian

May 30, 12:15:23 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: The chain of causality between an online campaign and an actual change in the endangerment of a species is so long.

May 30, 12:16:10 PDT> Alex: hi Susan

May 30, 12:16:30 PDT> Emily: I learn alot by lurking

May 30, 12:16:34 PDT> Emily: especially on e-mail lists

May 30, 12:16:37 PDT> Susan 10b: sorry alex

May 30, 12:16:47 PDT> Susan 10b: i thought i was in th ehallway

May 30, 12:16:50 PDT> Alex: ok, did you see Nevile's post in the other room

May 30, 12:16:56 PDT> Susan 10b: n

May 30, 12:17:01 PDT> Susan 10b: what was it?

May 30, 12:17:17 PDT> Susan 10b: i just clicked and started chatting

May 30, 12:17:26 PDT> Susan 10b: didn't see the post

May 30, 12:17:34 PDT> Alex: Neville just said he's logged in on linux ff

May 30, 12:17:48 PDT> Susan 10b: maybe he could help anna feldman

May 30, 12:18:00 PDT> Susan 10b: also, maybe MCG didn't see the other chat room

May 30, 12:18:00 PDT> Ruby: Elisa Camahort from Blogher is asking a question now.

May 30, 12:19:20 PDT> smokinggoat: Any word on Gabbly dropping the connection? I stared at a dead conversation for 20 minutes (I was listening to Ethan too). And where does stuff get archived?

May 30, 12:19:20 PDT> Ruby: What other chat room?

May 30, 12:19:20 PDT> Susan 10b: with teh more substantial questions going on

May 30, 12:19:36 PDT> Susan 10b: exactly

May 30, 12:19:36 PDT> Alex: you can access the archive for this room via RSS

May 30, 12:19:36 PDT> Susan 10b: i just started talking in it

May 30, 12:19:36 PDT> Alex: http://feed.gabbly.com/netsquared.org/hallway

May 30, 12:19:36 PDT> Susan 10b: and realized that i was in the wrong room

May 30, 12:19:49 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: There seems to be a parallel online Net2 conference in progress in the other chat room. But the topics are different from the f2f conference.

May 30, 12:19:49 PDT> Alex: the other chat room (with guest speakers) is at http://www.netsquared.org/remote

May 30, 12:19:50 PDT> Alex: that's right

May 30, 12:19:50 PDT> Alex: (in response to CY)

May 30, 12:19:50 PDT> Emily: Alex, I am not sure I'll be able to make it, but we'll see

May 30, 12:20:03 PDT> Alex: the other chat room is a parallel on line conference

May 30, 12:20:15 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: It would cool if that conference were more parallel to this one.

May 30, 12:20:15 PDT> Susan 10b: y, i agree CY

May 30, 12:20:15 PDT> Emily: some of it is the same

May 30, 12:20:46 PDT> MSifry: yeah

May 30, 12:20:46 PDT> Emily: I am very excited about being a part of it

May 30, 12:20:46 PDT> gtmcknight: why do we have seperate rooms again?

May 30, 12:20:46 PDT> Susan 10b: i have no idea

May 30, 12:21:00 PDT> Susan 10b: alex is in the other one

May 30, 12:21:21 PDT> Susan 10b: but she will be able to address that when she returns

May 30, 12:21:22 PDT> Emily: maybe I am not suppose to be here since I am not at the conference

May 30, 12:21:43 PDT> Susan 10b: u can be here if u want!

May 30, 12:21:43 PDT> Susan 10b: :)

May 30, 12:21:43 PDT> tmoenk: One(this one) is for general chat while the other one is meant to be more structured.

May 30, 12:21:57 PDT> Emily: that's what I thought

May 30, 12:21:58 PDT> gtmcknight: thats a drawback of gabbly...the allowing a chatroom for *any* page

May 30, 12:22:24 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Emily, please stick around, i fyou want to.

May 30, 12:22:24 PDT> Emily: I thought this for any one

May 30, 12:22:24 PDT> Emily: I want to stay here

May 30, 12:22:24 PDT> Emily: I am not interested in the topic in the other room

May 30, 12:22:28 PDT> Susan 10b: y, seemingly that would be the popint

May 30, 12:22:28 PDT> MSifry: the hamas victory was mostly because of the winner-take-all voting system and the PLO running multiple candidates

May 30, 12:22:32 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: I'm trying to figure out whether I can be in both chat rooms at once. (Not that I can follow two chats plus a f2f panel discussion.)

May 30, 12:23:00 PDT> gtmcknight: cyber: i cant login to the other room at the same time for some reason

May 30, 12:23:00 PDT> Susan 10b: point

May 30, 12:23:06 PDT> Alex: yes, you can be in 2 chats at once

May 30, 12:23:10 PDT> Alex: at least in theory

May 30, 12:23:13 PDT> Alex: I have been all day

May 30, 12:23:22 PDT> Susan 10b: it would be gr8 f we could field the questions from here to the in-person event

May 30, 12:23:23 PDT> Susan 10b: it is for anyone

May 30, 12:23:27 PDT> Alex: but it seems that folks who are at the conference site are having more trouble connecting

May 30, 12:23:32 PDT> Ruby: Wow, the netsquared site (& gabbly) is dragging...

May 30, 12:23:35 PDT> Susan 10b: that's the point

May 30, 12:23:36 PDT> Susan 10b: and we will take that into the notes for the next conference

May 30, 12:23:45 PDT> Susan 10b: stay emily!

May 30, 12:23:51 PDT> Susan 10b: we like you here

May 30, 12:23:53 PDT> Susan 10b: :)

May 30, 12:24:06 PDT> Emily: I am staying

May 30, 12:24:14 PDT> Emily: even if I go to the other one

May 30, 12:24:14 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Emily, PLEASE stay

May 30, 12:24:21 PDT> Alex: except on the 2 chat pages

May 30, 12:24:29 PDT> Alex: which take longer to refersh when then are more people loggedin

May 30, 12:24:33 PDT> Emily: I am just multitasking, like I always do

May 30, 12:25:01 PDT> gina: yay! you are definitely more than welcome, emily

May 30, 12:25:43 PDT> gtmcknight: sound like you have a fan club emily :)

May 30, 12:26:17 PDT> Emily: right now I am doing research on marketing websites

May 30, 12:26:18 PDT> smokinggoat: OK, so I'm showing my non-geek roots. If I want to use a browser-based RSS reader to see the archives, what should I use? Bloglines and Google Reader can't keep up..... (And Emily is cool. Who is Emily?)

May 30, 12:26:26 PDT> MSifry: it would be really cool if people here could all post what projects they're working on, or mulling, and that way pull "birds of a feather" sessions together

May 30, 12:26:47 PDT> Emily: my name on netsquared in eweinb04

May 30, 12:27:09 PDT> Emily: I do the blog exchange

May 30, 12:28:16 PDT> Susan 10b: last question -- guy from Mott Fdn asking about what we think about the idea that a blogger is not a real journalist and the dynamic btw old vs. new journalism

May 30, 12:29:01 PDT> smokinggoat: I'm focusing on tech in the intl sphere (mostly mobile) - and a big open source fan.... And yourself, Sifry?

May 30, 12:29:01 PDT> Susan 10b: v. interesting debate, rules of journalism game, IMHO

May 30, 12:29:01 PDT> Emily: interesting

May 30, 12:29:07 PDT> MSifry: that's www.congresspedia.org

May 30, 12:29:08 PDT> Emily: blogging is just like online journalism (in a way)

May 30, 12:29:42 PDT> smokinggoat: Right, CongreePedia was you. Thanks fo rthe link.

May 30, 12:30:03 PDT> Alex: ok, slowdown is out here too

May 30, 12:30:15 PDT> Alex: our server folks are seeing what magic they can do

May 30, 12:30:18 PDT> smokinggoat: (Sorry for the aggregious misspellings)

May 30, 12:31:42 PDT> geodog: is this chat room working for anyone?

May 30, 12:31:56 PDT> Emily: for me

May 30, 12:32:16 PDT> Alex: it doesn't handle refreshes very well, I fear

May 30, 12:32:26 PDT> Emily: maybe at the conference it is going slow

May 30, 12:32:46 PDT> Alex: it sounds like it's definitely working better for people outside than in

May 30, 12:32:56 PDT> Alex: but we're seeing whether tweakign the server can help

May 30, 12:33:02 PDT> Emily: which is good

May 30, 12:33:15 PDT> Ruby: It stops showing everything. I've been periodically refreshing the page, but I'm still missing a lot of the conversation.

May 30, 12:33:22 PDT> Eric: Its a bit sluggish from outside too, especially logging in

May 30, 12:33:30 PDT> Rob: Just so we're clear: PR can be used for goodness as well as evil. :)

May 30, 12:33:33 PDT> Emily: I had a problem earlier

May 30, 12:37:21 PDT> Emily: anyone here?

May 30, 12:37:56 PDT> Eric: I am :)

May 30, 12:38:03 PDT> Eric: How are you?

May 30, 12:38:04 PDT> Emily: you are?

May 30, 12:38:06 PDT> Emily: I am fine

May 30, 12:38:21 PDT> Eric: Eric Leland, TechCommons/CompuMentor

May 30, 12:38:25 PDT> Eric: You?

May 30, 12:41:16 PDT> Peter: Alex, how do you plan to lead off @ 1:00??

May 30, 12:42:15 PDT> Eric Leland: She is in prep mode I believe Peter

May 30, 12:42:20 PDT> Eric Leland: :)

May 30, 12:42:24 PDT> Peter: :)

May 30, 12:42:32 PDT> Eric Leland: How is the conference so far for you?

May 30, 12:42:40 PDT> Peter: on and off

May 30, 12:42:52 PDT> Peter: am remote so expected some challenge

May 30, 12:44:19 PDT> Eric Leland: Me too, its challenging, but it has been good for me as well.

May 30, 12:44:19 PDT> Peter: thought the hallway might catch chatter between sessions

May 30, 12:44:40 PDT> Eric Leland: It has in spurts, but not ongoing. Good to monitor throughout I think!

May 30, 12:44:46 PDT> Peter: :)

May 30, 12:44:50 PDT> Eric Leland: What is your relationship to netsquared topics ? :)

May 30, 12:44:50 PDT> Peter: kind of like listening to a wall for a conversation a room over

May 30, 12:44:50 PDT> Eric Leland: heh I hear you!

May 30, 12:44:50 PDT> Peter: lol

May 30, 12:45:13 PDT> Peter: What is your relationship to netsquared topics ? > how do you mean?

May 30, 12:45:48 PDT> Eric Leland: Where do you intersect? Are you a nonprofit blogger? Developer? Interested party?

May 30, 12:46:31 PDT> Eric Leland: other?

May 30, 12:46:31 PDT> Peter: ah ...

May 30, 12:46:31 PDT> Peter: IC

May 30, 12:46:37 PDT> Peter: will link to my Net2 profile ...and add more 1 sec

May 30, 12:46:41 PDT> Eric Leland: np

May 30, 12:48:53 PDT> Peter: well while that linking goes apace ...

May 30, 12:49:08 PDT> Peter: My work is primarily with funding orgs and the sphere of social enterprise

May 30, 12:49:11 PDT> Peter: I guess one intersection is my contributions to the Vancouver Social Enterprise Forum

May 30, 12:49:52 PDT> Eric Leland: Very good. How are the groups you are involved with adopting social web technologies? Or are they?

May 30, 12:52:38 PDT> Peter: Depends on the org - naturally. For some the use of community building tools for fundraising purposes is the core of their appraoch. A limiting idea ...

May 30, 12:52:51 PDT> Peter: appraoch*

May 30, 12:52:54 PDT> Peter: lol

May 30, 12:53:04 PDT> Peter: approach*

May 30, 12:54:12 PDT> Peter: but more recently have seen the use of knowledge sharing and buiolding of intellectual property assets

May 30, 12:54:38 PDT> Eric Leland: I attended part of the association for enterprise opportunity conference in Atlanta a few weeks back, the microenterprise orgs were very interested in the potential for conferencing and knowledge sharing (readytalk, wikis for example), but few

May 30, 12:54:42 PDT> Eric Leland: had used them

May 30, 12:55:01 PDT> Peter Rees: true

May 30, 12:55:07 PDT> Peter Rees: very true

May 30, 12:55:56 PDT> Peter Rees: Some folks at Care Canada have been interested in Kiva as a model for their microfunding program

May 30, 12:56:11 PDT> Eric Leland: Whenever I cycle through social web tools, it seems like most audiences resonate consistantly with wikis, but also fear the 'lack of control' - these folks were the same. I am not familiar with Kiva?

May 30, 12:56:52 PDT> Emily: sorry, I was away from the computer

May 30, 12:56:59 PDT> Peter Rees: http://www.kiva.org/

May 30, 12:57:03 PDT> Eric Leland: no worries, welcome back Emily

May 30, 12:57:25 PDT> Peter Rees: What's control ...

May 30, 12:57:29 PDT> Peter Rees: :)

May 30, 12:57:41 PDT> Eric Leland: Ahh, Kiva, I recall this now from the conference :)

May 30, 12:58:28 PDT> Peter Rees: likewise ... for the US http://www.prosper.com/public/welcome/default.aspx

May 30, 12:58:39 PDT> Emily: what did I

May 30, 12:58:42 PDT> Emily: miss

May 30, 12:59:21 PDT> Peter Rees: with the civil society orgs as delimiters of community

May 30, 12:59:34 PDT> Eric Leland: Emily - We are talking about social entrepreneurs and microfinance groups, and their intersections with social web tools. Nothing too deep :)

May 30, 12:59:42 PDT> Emily: Alex, can't get on remote

May 30, 12:59:48 PDT> Peter Rees: :)

May 30, 12:59:53 PDT> Peter Rees: :(

May 30, 12:59:58 PDT> Emily: nevermind

May 30, 13:00:51 PDT> Eric Leland: Wow Kiva and Prosper seem very interesting, but do they help tie lenders and borrowers into engaged communities, or simply handoffs of funds?

May 30, 13:02:59 PDT> Peter Rees: The services are neutral other than acquiring reputation information. What's emerging, lenders are attracting other lenders to similar purposes ...

May 30, 13:03:39 PDT> Peter Rees: A prsper campaign to fund computers in Uganda would be an example that comes quickest to mind

May 30, 13:07:10 PDT> Eric Leland: Seems like social web tools that attracts individuals to groups for group lending would be terrific, along with entrepreneurs with overlapping goals.

May 30, 13:10:18 PDT> Peter Rees: yes

May 30, 13:11:18 PDT> Peter Rees: btw - I can't seem to log-in to Net2 otherwise I would have kept my promise to post the profile link. :(

May 30, 13:11:44 PDT> Eric Leland: Yes I am having problems too, I am notifying the folks in the know :)

May 30, 13:12:20 PDT> Peter Rees: ty :)

May 30, 13:14:32 PDT> Peter Rees: Eric, What brings you to Net2Rem?

May 30, 13:17:26 PDT> Eric Leland: I am with CompuMentor (Director TechCommons). I am focused on producing technology solutions for nonprofits, in part through community participation. One concrete example is consultantcommons.org

May 30, 13:17:36 PDT> Eric Leland: I am also an independent consultant, and find myself advising nonprofits directly on these social web tools.

May 30, 13:19:04 PDT> Peter Rees: So a mix of passion and purpose :)

May 30, 13:19:51 PDT> Eric Leland: Absolutely, gotta have both right?

May 30, 13:20:42 PDT> gabber640: is there an IRC backchannel for the conference? i'm stuck at home :(

May 30, 13:22:46 PDT> Eric Leland: I am not aware of one myself...

May 30, 13:22:57 PDT> Eric Leland: There are two remote chats, this one and the main netsquared chat at netsquared.org/remote

May 30, 13:25:09 PDT> Eric Leland: hello agenthandy!

May 30, 13:25:17 PDT> agenthandy: Hi Eric!

May 30, 13:25:28 PDT> Eric Leland: What brings you to the hallway?

May 30, 13:25:41 PDT> agenthandy: well, i'm just checking in

May 30, 13:25:48 PDT> agenthandy: seeing if anyone needs anything.

May 30, 13:25:52 PDT> agenthandy: and you?

May 30, 13:26:39 PDT> Eric Leland: Chatting about all manners of things, microfinance, wikis, oh my. I am remote now tuning in from SF how about you?

May 30, 13:26:53 PDT> agenthandy: cool

May 30, 13:26:53 PDT> agenthandy: i'm great

May 30, 13:26:58 PDT> agenthandy: about to dash off to do session monitoring

May 30, 13:27:06 PDT> Eric Leland: excellent best of luck!

May 30, 13:27:15 PDT> agenthandy: did you see the on the fly wiki i set up for chatting?

May 30, 13:27:27 PDT> agenthandy: http://net2.pbwiki.com

May 30, 13:27:34 PDT> Eric Leland: no, I ll check it out

May 30, 13:27:35 PDT> agenthandy: or note sharing

May 30, 13:27:41 PDT> agenthandy: or as some people desired: dinner plans

May 30, 13:28:14 PDT> agenthandy: it was so easy .... only took about 30 seconds to set up and folks don't need to know wiki markup

May 30, 13:28:14 PDT> Eric Leland: cool deal

May 30, 13:28:15 PDT> agenthandy: anyway

May 30, 13:28:15 PDT> agenthandy: ttyl

May 30, 13:28:21 PDT> agenthandy: :)

May 30, 13:28:22 PDT> agenthandy: bye!

May 30, 13:28:24 PDT> Eric Leland: bye

May 30, 13:35:29 PDT> Eric Leland: hello gtmcknight!

May 30, 13:35:39 PDT> gtmcknight: hi Eric :)

May 30, 13:35:50 PDT> Eric Leland: How's the conference for you so far?

May 30, 13:36:10 PDT> gtmcknight: I thought the morning discussions in the big room were fantastic

May 30, 13:36:17 PDT> gtmcknight: and lunch was good too

May 30, 13:36:38 PDT> Eric Leland: Excellent, and about lunch too! What's the most important thing you learned so far?

May 30, 13:37:41 PDT> Eric Leland: Welcome back Emily!

May 30, 13:37:47 PDT> Emily: thanks

May 30, 13:37:47 PDT> gtmcknight: i liked zuckerman's "dont speak, point" talk

May 30, 13:38:01 PDT> Emily: what's going on?

May 30, 13:38:35 PDT> Eric Leland: learning gtmcknight's takeaways from the morning sessions :)

May 30, 13:38:49 PDT> Emily: oh ok

May 30, 13:39:20 PDT> gtmcknight: concentrating on letting the voices that are directly involved be heard

May 30, 13:39:47 PDT> gtmcknight: the hao wu story was really interesting, i hadn't heard of it before

May 30, 13:40:05 PDT> Eric Leland: Absolutely, thats great stuff. I wish I were there :)

May 30, 13:40:19 PDT> Emily: me to

May 30, 13:40:23 PDT> Emily: where are you located?

May 30, 13:41:02 PDT> Eric Leland: SF, not like that is far away from San Jose but I have other engagements keeping me away presently...

May 30, 13:41:14 PDT> Emily: oh ok

May 30, 13:41:21 PDT> gtmcknight: I flew in from Fl :)

May 30, 13:41:58 PDT> Eric Leland: Wow, welcome! What part of Florida?

May 30, 13:42:04 PDT> Emily: I decided to participate remotely instead

May 30, 13:42:21 PDT> gtmcknight: gainesville, north central fl

May 30, 13:42:23 PDT> Emily: I am in TX

May 30, 13:42:32 PDT> gtmcknight: where in tx?

May 30, 13:42:40 PDT> Emily: Dallas

May 30, 13:42:44 PDT> Eric Leland: What orgs do you all represent?

May 30, 13:42:59 PDT> Emily: I am not with an org yet

May 30, 13:43:17 PDT> Emily: I am trying to break in to technology work with an org

May 30, 13:43:26 PDT> gtmcknight: ah cool. i used to live in laredo, tx and canyon lake, tx (near new braunfels)

May 30, 13:43:51 PDT> Emily: I've been to new braunfels

May 30, 13:43:56 PDT> gtmcknight: im representing Podbop, a mashup website I created...i also do webdev work for the university of florida

May 30, 13:44:09 PDT> gtmcknight: schilitterbaun :)

May 30, 13:44:10 PDT> gtmcknight: ~sp

May 30, 13:44:21 PDT> Emily: really? gtmck

May 30, 13:44:32 PDT> Emily: what webdev work do you do at uf?

May 30, 13:44:37 PDT> Emily: is it for a department?

May 30, 13:45:55 PDT> Eric Leland: podbop, what is it?

May 30, 13:45:57 PDT> gtmcknight: sorry, got disconnected

May 30, 13:46:01 PDT> Emily: eric, what work do you do?

May 30, 13:46:41 PDT> gtmcknight: uf: i am on the web administration team.. we handle the main public facing sites... ufl.edu news.ufl.edu phonebook, president etc i do front end design and xhtml/css markup

May 30, 13:46:58 PDT> Emily: that's neat

May 30, 13:47:04 PDT> gtmcknight: http://podbop.org uses eventfuls data and our own db to let you dl mp3s of bands playing in your city this week

May 30, 13:47:19 PDT> Emily: I am thinking about doing webdev for a university

May 30, 13:47:22 PDT> Eric Leland: I am working with CompuMentor (Director TechCommons). I also am an independent consultant working with nonprofits on technology issues

May 30, 13:47:30 PDT> Emily: like for a department

May 30, 13:48:04 PDT> gtmcknight: awesome eric

May 30, 13:48:06 PDT> gtmcknight: cool emily, what do you do

May 30, 13:48:17 PDT> Emily: I am web designer

May 30, 13:48:20 PDT> gtmcknight: webdev wise

May 30, 13:48:25 PDT> Emily: I do html coding, update web content, css, xhtml

May 30, 13:48:50 PDT> gtmcknight: cool, do you have a website

May 30, 13:48:58 PDT> Emily: yes

May 30, 13:49:23 PDT> Scott M: Time to delurk, I guess. I'm the online community manager for SchwabLearning.org

May 30, 13:49:40 PDT> Eric Leland: Welcome Scott!

May 30, 13:49:54 PDT> Scott M: Thanks!

May 30, 13:50:03 PDT> gtmcknight: awesome site scott

May 30, 13:50:31 PDT> Emily: my site is at snipurl.com/emilyspage

May 30, 13:51:21 PDT> Eric Leland: Scott, how does your online community participation compare with the visitation generally across schwablearning.org?

May 30, 13:52:10 PDT> Scott M: The community accounts for about 7-10% of site visits.

May 30, 13:52:39 PDT> Scott M: It's smaller in terms fo actual people because we have a much higher rate of returning people.

May 30, 13:52:57 PDT> gtmcknight: i'm outta here for a bit, gonna enjoy the grassroots marketing panel, cya guys

May 30, 13:53:05 PDT> Eric Leland: see ya gtmcknight

May 30, 13:53:12 PDT> Scott M: Oh! I hope someone blogs that.

May 30, 13:53:46 PDT> Eric Leland: We are trying to get all of them covered, either podcast or blogged or both...

May 30, 13:55:01 PDT> Eric Leland: Scott, do you host specific community features/spotlights online to drive traffic to your community?

May 30, 13:56:42 PDT> Scott M: We've been doing it more and more. Originally, I held back because I wanted to deepen the relations that were developing.

May 30, 13:56:42 PDT> smokinggoat: Hi Scott - good to see you here (whereer here is...)

May 30, 13:57:31 PDT> Scott M: Right now, we are inviting experts in various fields to spend a week on the forum.

May 30, 13:57:52 PDT> Scott M: One per month for three months and then again when school starts.

May 30, 13:57:52 PDT> Scott M: Hi SG!

May 30, 13:58:31 PDT> Eric Leland: Very cool. Are you considering employing other social web tools in your online community?

May 30, 13:58:57 PDT> smokinggoat: By the way, if you wanna catch up with WineCamp folks (or continue / parallel conversations) join us here:

May 30, 13:58:57 PDT> smokinggoat: http://gabbly.com/http://www.netsquared.org/WineCamp

May 30, 13:59:18 PDT> Scott M: I'd love to and our particular audience gives us some interesting challenges to the current crop of social technologies.

May 30, 14:00:23 PDT> Scott M: We don't have short term plans, though.

May 30, 14:02:25 PDT> smokinggoat: (The WineCamp URL leads to a "error page" - but the Gablly channel still works... ;-))

May 30, 14:05:41 PDT> davidcrow: how was winecamp?

May 30, 14:05:41 PDT> Susan 10b: hey scott

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Rob: In the OS session - Interesting question about how you compare a corporate vendor to an open-source community in an RFP

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Emily: Hi all who just joined

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Scott M: smokinggoat - are there followups to winecamp? How'd it go?

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Susan 10b: is this the scott from online community camp?

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Scott M: Hi susan!

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> smokinggoat: Well, I'm glad you asked - it was great. A lot of energy - a lot of enthusiasm.

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Scott M: Yup

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Susan 10b: cool, glad you couold join us

May 30, 14:06:34 PDT> gabber281: I think OS fails miserably in support and training -- maybe solving the problem will overcome some of the reluctance

May 30, 14:06:34 PDT> smokinggoat: There are going ot be followups to WineCampCalaveras (you see, we already have to label it with a locale). There's conversation abotu WineCamp France, Niagara, and Ithink South Africa?

May 30, 14:06:36 PDT> davidcrow: smokinggoat: very cool, I saw the pics in factoryjoe's and miss_rogue's flickr feeds

May 30, 14:06:58 PDT> davidcrow: smokinggoat: I'm one of the copycats behind Niagara

May 30, 14:07:23 PDT> smokinggoat: Woops - again, you join us over here for more: http://gabbly.com/http://www.netsquared.org/WineCamp

May 30, 14:07:37 PDT> smokinggoat: Aha - well, while we're here - good to see you David!

May 30, 14:07:41 PDT> Scott M: Ah, just found the wiki on barcamp's site. I'll check these links.

May 30, 14:08:06 PDT> Susan 10b: so, would it make sense to discuss any of the live tallks here (that r going on at the Net2 live conf)?

May 30, 14:08:10 PDT> davidcrow: yeah, I have to head, we have our next DemoCamp tonight

May 30, 14:08:20 PDT> davidcrow: barcamp.org/TorCampDemoCamp6

May 30, 14:08:33 PDT> Susan 10b: b/c the other chat room seems to have a set agenda

May 30, 14:08:33 PDT> smokinggoat: One of the things I'm interested in is publishing not only what came out of WineCamp (the acronym is not flattering), but also feedback on how to organize one (like the Barcamp guide)....

May 30, 14:08:43 PDT> Susan 10b: what is the acro

May 30, 14:08:53 PDT> Susan 10b: acro of winecamp?

May 30, 14:09:09 PDT> smokinggoat: Well, look at it... Wine Camp is ...

May 30, 14:09:13 PDT> Scott M: Susan yes. Folks have been asking if there is an irc backchannel.

May 30, 14:09:17 PDT> Rob: The url for OpenBRR just mentioned is http://www.openbrr.org

May 30, 14:09:36 PDT> smokinggoat: By the way, good comments on how to evaluate the oS sector....

May 30, 14:09:43 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.netsquared.org/conference-tracking

May 30, 14:09:58 PDT> Susan 10b: there is the post about the back channel

May 30, 14:11:37 PDT> smokinggoat: Also, check out Del.icio.us and Technorati WC tags (there, I used the acronym....)

May 30, 14:11:56 PDT> Susan 10b: http://net2.pbwiki.com/ is the wiki where you can see/ participate in the conference notes

May 30, 14:12:14 PDT> Susan 10b: and it says that this is the place to discuss the sessioons

May 30, 14:12:24 PDT> Susan 10b: but i am not seeing much of that right now

May 30, 14:12:48 PDT> Susan 10b: i a,m interested in knowing if you all want to be discussing the essions too

May 30, 14:12:57 PDT> Susan 10b: i may just begin it here

May 30, 14:13:27 PDT> smokinggoat: We could do it using the Gablly URL hack - just tack on a session name at the end of a NetSquared URL and run it through Gabbly, and you're there...

May 30, 14:14:00 PDT> Scott M: ::nods:: I was trying to say, yes. We would like that. I think that's why people have been wondering about IRC as more immediate access to the sessions (remotely)

May 30, 14:14:27 PDT> Scott M: That would work nicely.

May 30, 14:15:00 PDT> smokinggoat: 10b - we should see if we can push this idea. IF yall think the Gabbly hack would do it, lezgo.

May 30, 14:15:28 PDT> Susan 10b: k, but my fear is that it adds even one more place to remember for users

May 30, 14:16:15 PDT> smokinggoat: True. I've got 4 windows open.. I think the other challenge is to get the word out vs. having overlapping conversations

May 30, 14:16:25 PDT> Susan 10b: i wuz just writing that

May 30, 14:16:28 PDT> Susan 10b: i agree

May 30, 14:16:32 PDT> Susan 10b: let's just keep it here

May 30, 14:16:36 PDT> smokinggoat: Wow - I just totally didn't make sense. I need to close some mental windows...

May 30, 14:16:55 PDT> Susan 10b: b/c it was confusing enough with two rooms

May 30, 14:17:02 PDT> Susan 10b: u were making sense, at least to me, i understood and agree

May 30, 14:17:27 PDT> Susan 10b: i am in the marketing talk right now

May 30, 14:17:38 PDT> Susan 10b: anyone else in here?

May 30, 14:17:38 PDT> smokinggoat: Wow - Zackrs numbers are pretty boggling....

May 30, 14:17:44 PDT> Susan 10b: blogher grrls speaking

May 30, 14:17:56 PDT> Rob: Clearly we're not billing enough, smokinggoat :-)

May 30, 14:18:10 PDT> Susan 10b: zackr?

May 30, 14:18:18 PDT> Rob: Zack Rosen

May 30, 14:18:20 PDT> Susan 10b: i guess we are in diff talks

May 30, 14:18:46 PDT> smokinggoat: Clearly, Rob....

May 30, 14:19:05 PDT> Eric Leland: *flipping through windows* yes lets not create too many new places to log all this great stuff.

May 30, 14:19:21 PDT> Rob: We're in the state of open-source session, Susan

May 30, 14:19:54 PDT> Susan 10b: right, let's keep it as simple as poss, esp since, like smokingoat, i was talking in a window for like ten mins b/4 i realized that I was in a dead window

May 30, 14:20:16 PDT> Susan 10b: it doesn't appear to be logged off when u are

May 30, 14:20:59 PDT> Susan 10b: an interesting principle discussed in the blog/marketing sesh is to take comments from your blog and not only push them to the front, but also to make them into new posts

May 30, 14:21:13 PDT> Susan 10b: thereby, making your community the author of your blog, instead of you

May 30, 14:21:27 PDT> Susan 10b: i like that model, opening up blogging to make it more of a community tool

May 30, 14:21:30 PDT> Emily: that's a good idea

May 30, 14:21:40 PDT> Susan 10b: i know (why didn't i thin of that)

May 30, 14:21:40 PDT> Rob: very cool

May 30, 14:21:56 PDT> Susan 10b: using open souorce principles for your community members

May 30, 14:22:00 PDT> Emily: good idea for the blog exchange

May 30, 14:22:06 PDT> Susan 10b: right!

May 30, 14:22:17 PDT> Rob: is the idea to fill in the comment-writer's name as the author manually, or just to quote the comment?

May 30, 14:22:18 PDT> Scott M: Is it the main blogger who is making the call as to what becomes a new post?

May 30, 14:22:24 PDT> Susan 10b: ok, now who wants to add this to the next steps section of the site?

May 30, 14:22:36 PDT> Emily: how is it a next step?

May 30, 14:22:51 PDT> Scott M: I second Rob's Q

May 30, 14:22:55 PDT> Susan 10b: rob- i think the author gets the idea quoted but not the name

May 30, 14:23:07 PDT> Susan 10b: scott--the main blogger does make the call

May 30, 14:23:22 PDT> Susan 10b: unless we are talking about a blog like that netsquared blog

May 30, 14:23:41 PDT> Susan 10b: where if you tag the blog net2, the comment gets pushed to the front door

May 30, 14:23:52 PDT> Emily: which session are you at Susan?

May 30, 14:24:04 PDT> Susan 10b: but there still needs to be a person to take the comments and make them into new posts

May 30, 14:24:19 PDT> Susan 10b: i guess the next steps would be to solve this question of how to do thiis well,

May 30, 14:24:29 PDT> Rob: Comment of the day: "Just because I question the leadership doesn't mean I'm not a patriot... I love open-source."

May 30, 14:24:30 PDT> Emily: I don't want to post it

May 30, 14:24:31 PDT> Scott M: So there is still an editor sitting on the net2 tagged posts?

May 30, 14:24:51 PDT> Susan 10b: i am at the blogging/marketing sesh

May 30, 14:24:56 PDT> Susan 10b: i can't remember the name

May 30, 14:24:59 PDT> gabber281: why is OS such a religion?

May 30, 14:25:07 PDT> Susan 10b: there is an editor, scott

May 30, 14:25:21 PDT> Emily: grassroots marketing?

May 30, 14:25:28 PDT> Susan 10b: but if you tag something net2, it will get featured on the front sdoor (I think)

May 30, 14:25:33 PDT> Scott M: Ooo! Please?

May 30, 14:25:33 PDT> Susan 10b: y

May 30, 14:25:38 PDT> smokinggoat: 281 - how do you mean? that there's such a evangelism?

May 30, 14:25:43 PDT> Susan 10b: please what?

May 30, 14:25:56 PDT> Scott M: Sorry, Emily. I'd love to hear about the grassroots session.

May 30, 14:26:07 PDT> Susan 10b: i am in the grassroots sesh

May 30, 14:26:13 PDT> Susan 10b: that's what i am talking about

May 30, 14:26:15 PDT> Emily: that's what I am interested in hearing about

May 30, 14:26:22 PDT> Susan 10b: what i am hearing

May 30, 14:26:27 PDT> Scott M: Ah! 'k thought they were separate.

May 30, 14:26:28 PDT> Susan 10b: i have been doing that :)

May 30, 14:26:44 PDT> Susan 10b: nope, I am tranlating what I am hearing here

May 30, 14:26:56 PDT> Emily: ok great

May 30, 14:27:00 PDT> smokinggoat: And I am in the OS sesh - but we're staying here because leaving would confuse people (who are already confused?)

May 30, 14:27:21 PDT> Susan 10b: can someone confirm that tagging something net2 will push it to the front door of the netsquared site

May 30, 14:27:38 PDT> Susan 10b: I will ask the questioon lilve right now

May 30, 14:27:43 PDT> Emily: what do you mean by front door?

May 30, 14:27:47 PDT> Eric Leland: why would they be confused goat?

May 30, 14:27:53 PDT> Rob: (OS) 281, I think there's a disconnect that happens when people who've discovered a really great solution try to convey their enthusiasm in an environment where fear and doubt prevail.

May 30, 14:28:02 PDT> Emily: tagging bookmarks does

May 30, 14:28:02 PDT> Susan 10b: the front door of netsquared site (home pg)

May 30, 14:28:21 PDT> Susan 10b: goat- we can take turns talking about our sessions

May 30, 14:28:33 PDT> Susan 10b: so we can actually hear what they are saying. :)

May 30, 14:28:50 PDT> Susan 10b: Emily: tagging bookmarks does (does what, emily?)

May 30, 14:28:50 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: are u talking about blogs within netsquared site or independent blogs which tag to net2?

May 30, 14:29:00 PDT> Susan 10b: either

May 30, 14:29:14 PDT> Susan 10b: i wa really mean tagging internal net2 blogs

May 30, 14:29:22 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: ok thanks

May 30, 14:30:17 PDT> Susan 10b: if you tag somethiing with net2 in del.icio.us or if you tag it in the net2 site, what are the ouotcomes?

May 30, 14:30:33 PDT> Susan 10b: i assume you get it pushed to the net2 front door if it's an internal blog

May 30, 14:30:38 PDT> Susan 10b: but i am not certain

May 30, 14:30:42 PDT> Susan 10b: anyone know?

May 30, 14:31:22 PDT> Emily: I am not sure

May 30, 14:31:31 PDT> Emily: it pushes up when searching in technorati

May 30, 14:31:37 PDT> smokinggoat: I just checked the front-page listed blog posts (on "share") and not all are tagged with Net2.....

May 30, 14:31:44 PDT> Susan 10b: i will ask, when i have a minute btw sesh's and report back

May 30, 14:31:44 PDT> Emily: with del.icio.us it pushes up

May 30, 14:31:58 PDT> Susan 10b: y, i know that gina can manually push them

May 30, 14:32:15 PDT> Susan 10b: but i was wondering if one coould tag w/net2 and make that happen independant of gina

May 30, 14:32:27 PDT> Emily: not sure

May 30, 14:32:31 PDT> Susan 10b: right

May 30, 14:32:37 PDT> Susan 10b: m, neither

May 30, 14:32:52 PDT> Emily: well I am going to go take a computer break

May 30, 14:32:57 PDT> Susan 10b: and if you are tagging with net2 in del. or technorati it pushes to the net2 feed

May 30, 14:33:04 PDT> Susan 10b: but not to the net2 front door

May 30, 14:33:05 PDT> Emily: can't wait to hear about the rest of the session

May 30, 14:33:13 PDT> Susan 10b: which only features net2 blogs

May 30, 14:33:17 PDT> Susan 10b: by emily

May 30, 14:33:22 PDT> Susan 10b: please join us fo rthe next sesh

May 30, 14:33:25 PDT> Emily: del.icio.us and tech does push it to the front

May 30, 14:33:28 PDT> Susan 10b: bye emily

May 30, 14:33:31 PDT> Emily: which session?

May 30, 14:33:44 PDT> Susan 10b: i will be in the virtual worlds sesh

May 30, 14:33:47 PDT> Emily: I am going to the next remote one

May 30, 14:33:48 PDT> Emily: oh

May 30, 14:33:54 PDT> Susan 10b: and i will be here

May 30, 14:33:58 PDT> Emily: if anyone is going to the tagging one, I am interested in that one

May 30, 14:34:03 PDT> Susan 10b: transcribing my thoughts\

May 30, 14:34:46 PDT> Susan 10b: not to belabor the point, but del. and technorati do not push to teh front door of the net2 site

May 30, 14:34:53 PDT> Susan 10b: but whatev

May 30, 14:34:55 PDT> Susan 10b: she is mistaken

May 30, 14:36:09 PDT> Susan 10b: "find the person with the passion, no matter who they are and what their position is and they are your blogger"- from this session

May 30, 14:36:12 PDT> Susan 10b: interesting idea

May 30, 14:36:26 PDT> Susan 10b: they are saying that it doesn't matter who they are

May 30, 14:36:36 PDT> Susan 10b: as long as they have the passion, they can blog

May 30, 14:37:25 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: i agree. this is why blogging becomes a powerful tool. people dont need to be experts.

May 30, 14:37:31 PDT> smokinggoat: (OS session) interesting discussion on usability - the Firefox example gets talked about often, but that usability often the last thing worked on in an OS project.....

May 30, 14:38:22 PDT> Susan 10b: tuesday-- I wrote an article about this idea

May 30, 14:38:23 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.techsoup.org/howto/yourstories/internet/page4276.cfm?cg=searc...

May 30, 14:38:34 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.techsoup.org/howto/yourstories/internet/page4276.cfm

May 30, 14:39:00 PDT> smokinggoat: (OS session) there seems to be a high level of frustration from OS-friendly people about the continued OS culture of "it's easy, it works, use it" - when the comments seem to tel that it's not as easy to "grok" as developers make it seem

May 30, 14:39:05 PDT> Susan 10b: about a person who wrote a blog for the first time and garnered awareness for a case that got huge publicity

May 30, 14:39:23 PDT> Susan 10b: many people tagged the blog and publicized it

May 30, 14:39:30 PDT> Susan 10b: and it got press coverage

May 30, 14:39:55 PDT> Scott M: (OS session) - could the two (UI last and difficuly of groking OS) be related?

May 30, 14:40:20 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: thanks susan will read it now

May 30, 14:41:09 PDT> gabber381: HI

May 30, 14:41:24 PDT> gabber381: HI

May 30, 14:41:30 PDT> gabber381: Identiyt Woman is here.

May 30, 14:41:35 PDT> Eric Leland: Hi 381!

May 30, 14:41:55 PDT> smokinggoat: Scott - I think that was Zackr's point (in a way). Also a knowledge gap - obviously one person thinks installing and running Ubuntu/OpenOffice is a piece of cake, but my wife wouldn't do it... That's not at all of interest for her

May 30, 14:42:09 PDT> smokinggoat: Even thous she *loves* the philosophy of open source....

May 30, 14:43:11 PDT> Eric Leland: The philosophy of OS goes so much further than technology, thats what makes it so enticing, but limiting when only talked about in tech terms.

May 30, 14:45:04 PDT> smokinggoat: Even the idea of creative commons requires a certain amount of education - it's not an easily understandable concept...

May 30, 14:46:37 PDT> Emily: I am back

May 30, 14:49:13 PDT> Eric Leland: Its true, although contributing to improving recipes can make more sense to some audiences over contributing to code. Sometimes the subject matter itself chases folks away from the underlying principle of open source.

May 30, 14:49:35 PDT> Susan 10b: so i can't chat during this one

May 30, 14:49:43 PDT> Susan 10b: b/c i am the official notetaker

May 30, 14:49:49 PDT> Susan 10b: see you all l8r

May 30, 14:49:58 PDT> Susan 10b: i am in the virtual worlds session

May 30, 14:50:11 PDT> Eric Leland: bye Susan :)

May 30, 14:50:18 PDT> Emily: bye

May 30, 14:52:01 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: bye susan! thanks for the link

May 30, 14:59:17 PDT> Peter Rees: ciao

May 30, 14:59:45 PDT> gabber355: when's the next guest thingie?