May 30, 15:00:42 PDT> smokinggoat: NExt guest tingie is prbably starting right now on the remote channel: http://www.netsquared.org/remote ??

May 30, 15:01:41 PDT> Eric Leland: Lisa Stone from BlogHer is next at 3PM, in a few minutes I suspect

May 30, 15:01:56 PDT> smokinggoat: wse're gonna get up away from our comptuers, so I'll try to get back with some more notes later

May 30, 15:02:43 PDT> gabber355: thanks for being there!

May 30, 15:06:51 PDT> KevinMarks: so is this general comments on session or out of sessions?

May 30, 15:11:36 PDT> Eric Leland: This is comments on sessions, or whatever strikes you. Its the catch all :)

May 30, 15:12:07 PDT> gabber994: is anyone at the tagging session? I am interested in hearing about that one.

May 30, 15:13:50 PDT> Eric Leland: I would be too, I am remote and not in any of the sessions :)

May 30, 15:14:38 PDT> agenthandy: i'm at the activism session

May 30, 15:15:33 PDT> Emily: that one sounded interesting too

May 30, 15:15:53 PDT> agenthandy: lots of case studies are being talked about

May 30, 15:16:05 PDT> Emily: good

May 30, 15:16:08 PDT> Eric Leland: what has been most compelling?

May 30, 15:16:21 PDT> agenthandy: the "tahoe ad" for the apprentice

May 30, 15:16:23 PDT> gabber281: the human rights stuff is compelling

May 30, 15:16:54 PDT> KevinMarks: I'm in tagging

May 30, 15:17:03 PDT> Emily: how is the tagging session going?

May 30, 15:17:05 PDT> gabber281: at least all this is starting to get to the point of *not JUST tech* ... meaning all these problems have to be addressed in a hundred ways

May 30, 15:17:24 PDT> agenthandy: yes, tools are just tools

May 30, 15:18:03 PDT> KevinMarks: Beth gave a good overview of how tagging can help an NGO by having your tagged links out in the cloud instead of on floppies

May 30, 15:19:12 PDT> agenthandy: being willing to not fail has come up a few times .... as leading to success through "non-ownership"

May 30, 15:19:20 PDT> KevinMarks: now saying 'make a tag for your organisation, and for events'

May 30, 15:19:50 PDT> Emily: right

May 30, 15:21:32 PDT> KevinMarks: talking about related tags for community spillover

May 30, 15:22:34 PDT> KevinMarks: now tagspaces, which seems to be a hierachic tagging idea

May 30, 15:22:45 PDT> Emily: never heard of tagspaces

May 30, 15:23:03 PDT> KevinMarks: which seems a little hard maybe

May 30, 15:23:34 PDT> KevinMarks: he does brainjams:neworleans as a way to claim your own subspace

May 30, 15:25:02 PDT> KevinMarks: he seems to be focused on creating new 'words' as tags

May 30, 15:25:17 PDT> smokinggoat: (os for people) we had a great exercise disucssin whether os for npo sector is a dream or reality - the best answer was that is always has been and always will be a mix, and maybe that argument is a red herring

May 30, 15:25:17 PDT> Eric Leland: http://tagspaces.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

May 30, 15:25:32 PDT> smokinggoat: And I mena os technology, not necessarily os philosophy....

May 30, 15:25:58 PDT> KevinMarks: Chris Heur was the speaker

May 30, 15:26:08 PDT> KevinMarks: sorre Heuer

May 30, 15:26:28 PDT> KevinMarks: now Erik Collier

May 30, 15:27:26 PDT> smokinggoat: (os) need good basic description of what os is (?? bad paraphrase), also now a comment about highlighting when os is being used, so people can see the widespread use - and perhaps not be as ... afraid?

May 30, 15:28:45 PDT> smokinggoat: (os session) first focus is always - what works the best? epseically for a particular use / npo - and then occasionally there is the question of "what "technology wil make me feel good suing it?

May 30, 15:29:59 PDT> smokinggoat: (os session) expectations of os apps in office suite are stable, but online tech expectations always change, - so there's a wide range of expectations acorss the idea of whether "os" in general is best...

May 30, 15:30:16 PDT> KevinMarks: (tagging) Erik taking about kinds of aggregators

May 30, 15:30:18 PDT> gabber281: is it? really? I've rescued so many OS projects ... that went badly because they were "SOLD" the religion and not a good long term solution

May 30, 15:31:36 PDT> smokinggoat: 281 - is that a prob of OS, or of the original techie selling somehting unsustainable? I've rescued npos from "unsustainable" MS Exchange implementations, because it was the wrong solution too?

May 30, 15:32:19 PDT> Eric Leland: hmm there is no "OS in general". OS is a method, not a product. There are a lot of mitigating factors to a sucessful OS project and subsequent end-user implementation.

May 30, 15:33:02 PDT> smokinggoat: I think the basic point you're making is true - OS shoulnd'tbe an end-all answer because you believ ein the philosophy - just like capitalism isn't an end-all answer for nonprofit / civic society work - but does not mean itshould be excluded

May 30, 15:33:58 PDT> smokinggoat: Eric - yes, I'm talking about tech applications specifically, and someone is additionally making the point that there are a huge range of categories of applications..

May 30, 15:34:39 PDT> Eric Leland: indeed, thanks for the play-by-play :)

May 30, 15:34:55 PDT> smokinggoat: And also to your point, Erci - what you said applies to technology in npos in general - mitigating facotrs for success ;-)

May 30, 15:35:37 PDT> smokinggoat: Gunner is making the point of the undue power of techies over the decison-making process of nonprofits

May 30, 15:36:17 PDT> smokinggoat: Gunner is also saying what npos need is often less sexy than what techie evangelists (open source or other) wanna work on... (I.e. expectation amangement of appropriate tech....)

May 30, 15:36:49 PDT> smokinggoat: (os sesh) - what are the good OS off the shelf tools

May 30, 15:37:23 PDT> smokinggoat: Kieran: Firefox, Gimp (I disagree), OpenOffice, Drupal, WordPress, Apache, PostFix, Linux, Ubuntu, PERL

May 30, 15:38:17 PDT> smokinggoat: Rebecca: is immeditely suspicious when someone says "they are great"- maybe back to the "religion"comment earlier? - she wants to here a bit more subjective description

May 30, 15:39:54 PDT> smokinggoat: (os sesh) more recommendations: Asterix for a PBX (phone system); Samba - for a PDC (PDC?....)

May 30, 15:40:13 PDT> smokinggoat: (hey sorry, am I hogging this space? just trying to be helpful for otehrs not here)

May 30, 15:40:57 PDT> KevinMarks: (tagging) questiosn about tag convergence and how it supports mission

May 30, 15:41:18 PDT> smokinggoat: (os sesh) what are the flags to see whether a npo is ready for open source apps or not

May 30, 15:41:49 PDT> Eric Leland: no please continue

May 30, 15:41:49 PDT> smokinggoat: Gunner: wants to see other nonprofits use tool successfully, feels open source has been oversold (return comment - you could say that about any software0

May 30, 15:42:43 PDT> gabber281: (re os) ... I'd love to see a very honet survey - how many people ASSUME OS is the right idea ... without considering other options at all. My guess is MOSTLY.

May 30, 15:42:53 PDT> smokinggoat: (os sesh) last 10% of usability must be taken seriousyly; burden of proof is often on developers to provide 100% usabiltiy - because a nonprofit staff person doesn't have the time / erngy to deal....

May 30, 15:43:26 PDT> gabber281: usabiity is on the user side AND the admin side.

May 30, 15:44:00 PDT> smokinggoat: (os sesh) - what are signs npo should go to OS: can't afford the upgrade; have a tech team; if person starts with ideology, then it's a red flag (comment by Michael Mach - OS developer...)

May 30, 15:44:54 PDT> smokinggoat: (os sesh) - value of giving back: "usability sucks" doesn't help, but "this checkbox doesn't make sense"- can be addressed

May 30, 15:45:02 PDT> Eric Leland: Going into OS means a commitment to the OS community, certaintly in learning from it, and ideally to contribute back. This is not a straightforward process for most of the uninitiated.

May 30, 15:46:01 PDT> smokinggoat: Michael Mach is giving away CDs with open source software (priority to human rights orgs)

May 30, 15:46:20 PDT> smokinggoat: OK - OS session done.... Woop!

May 30, 15:46:29 PDT> Eric Leland: thanks!

May 30, 15:51:18 PDT> Eric Leland: Kevin, any final thoughts on the tagging session?

May 30, 15:55:01 PDT> Emily: anyone here?

May 30, 15:55:07 PDT> Eric Leland: Hi Emily?

May 30, 15:55:16 PDT> Eric Leland: I mean, hi Emily!

May 30, 15:55:18 PDT> Emily: Hi

May 30, 15:56:20 PDT> Emily: how is it going?

May 30, 15:56:35 PDT> Eric Leland: Good! How has the research on marketing websites gone? :)

May 30, 15:57:02 PDT> Emily: I think I finished it for now

May 30, 15:57:09 PDT> Emily: thanks for remembering

May 30, 15:57:40 PDT> Eric Leland: multitasking... occasionally I also remember things too :)

May 30, 15:58:38 PDT> Emily: I am trying to get a position and it involves online marketing so I was researching that

May 30, 15:59:03 PDT> Eric Leland: Ah very good, you have an interview?

May 30, 15:59:15 PDT> Emily: already had it

May 30, 15:59:21 PDT> Emily: this is for my follow up

May 30, 15:59:22 PDT> Emily: letter

May 30, 16:00:09 PDT> Eric Leland: Right on, best of luck!

May 30, 16:00:11 PDT> Emily: thanks

May 30, 16:00:38 PDT> Eric Leland: I will see y'all later online :)

May 30, 16:02:06 PDT> Emily: anyone else here?

May 30, 16:04:17 PDT> smokinggoat: I'm sitting in on the ICT and Developing World panel

May 30, 16:04:23 PDT> smokinggoat: Hasn't started yet...

May 30, 16:04:24 PDT> Emily: oh ok

May 30, 16:04:38 PDT> smokinggoat: It's very related to the conversations we had at WineCamp

May 30, 16:04:59 PDT> Emily: where do I find the converstaion you had at winecamp?

May 30, 16:10:05 PDT> smokinggoat: Um, well, the beginning are here: http://ext311.blogspot.com/2006/05/i-went-to-winecamp-and-all-you-got-wa... - it links to all tagged blog entries, as well as Christine's more in-depth review of some of the conversations. More 2 come from me 2.

May 30, 16:19:11 PDT> quixotic: mashups is huge!

May 30, 16:19:48 PDT> Susan 10b: the wireless tak has a smaller partcipation, so everyone is rolly at the mashups one

May 30, 16:20:02 PDT> Susan 10b: i meant wireless talk

May 30, 16:20:50 PDT> quixotic: i would be at the gender one if i didn't need to be here for my org

May 30, 16:20:59 PDT> Susan 10b: who are you (real name)

May 30, 16:21:10 PDT> Susan 10b: ?

May 30, 16:21:13 PDT> quixotic: ivan

May 30, 16:21:18 PDT> Susan 10b: ok

May 30, 16:21:25 PDT> Susan 10b: just wonderin

May 30, 16:22:21 PDT> Emily: what is going on at the conference now?

May 30, 16:22:31 PDT> Susan 10b: i am in the wireless talk

May 30, 16:22:41 PDT> Susan 10b: mesh networking architecture

May 30, 16:22:57 PDT> Susan 10b: need 10-30 nodes per sq mile

May 30, 16:23:18 PDT> Susan 10b: $20-80K to provide wireless coverage

May 30, 16:23:24 PDT> Susan 10b: or the cost of a couple cars

May 30, 16:23:39 PDT> Susan 10b: per square mile

May 30, 16:24:03 PDT> Susan 10b: nodes are APs for clients , fwd to otehr nodes

May 30, 16:24:18 PDT> quixotic: (mashups) just talking about what they are, how they work -- connect existing social networks (del.icio.us, eg.) and existing data (google maps, amazon, etc.)

May 30, 16:24:54 PDT> Susan 10b: wifi/ mesh networks arer low cost and fast variety of commerical and open source solutioons

May 30, 16:25:28 PDT> agenthandy: i'm in the gender session

May 30, 16:25:28 PDT> Emily: where is the mashup discussion taking place?

May 30, 16:25:29 PDT> quixotic: jordan

May 30, 16:25:33 PDT> Susan 10b: how is the gender sesh?

May 30, 16:25:37 PDT> Susan 10b: what are they talking baout

May 30, 16:25:38 PDT> Emily: I meant which session

May 30, 16:25:50 PDT> Susan 10b: exp in wireless talk

May 30, 16:25:55 PDT> agenthandy: intros and the coding of gender presentation in the tools

May 30, 16:26:03 PDT> Susan 10b: nipalwireless.net

May 30, 16:26:04 PDT> agenthandy: all women on the panel

May 30, 16:26:14 PDT> SnagglepussJones: anyone know if the milk is 2%, skim or whole?

May 30, 16:26:17 PDT> Susan 10b: nepalwireless.net, i meant

May 30, 16:26:22 PDT> Susan 10b: 13 villages linked in nepal

May 30, 16:26:30 PDT> SnagglepussJones: or yak

May 30, 16:26:33 PDT> Susan 10b: dunno snagglepuss

May 30, 16:26:36 PDT> Emily: I see it now

May 30, 16:26:37 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) David Barnard of SangoNet

May 30, 16:26:41 PDT> Emily: I didn't realize it was new sessions

May 30, 16:26:55 PDT> Susan 10b: yes, where are you , Em?

May 30, 16:27:00 PDT> Emily: I am starting to learn more about mashups

May 30, 16:27:06 PDT> Emily: I am here remotely

May 30, 16:27:07 PDT> Emily: in TX

May 30, 16:27:11 PDT> Susan 10b: in what city?

May 30, 16:27:14 PDT> Susan 10b: o ic

May 30, 16:27:28 PDT> Susan 10b: sharron rush from knowbility.org is from texas and in here

May 30, 16:27:36 PDT> Susan 10b: accessibility expert

May 30, 16:27:43 PDT> Emily: I am in Dallas

May 30, 16:27:46 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) giving ex. of network for good -- mashup of guidestar and volunteermatch

May 30, 16:28:10 PDT> Emily: I've been finding lots of mashups in the nonprofit sector

May 30, 16:28:19 PDT> Emily: I am across one last night

May 30, 16:28:25 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless shesh) barriers for access: knowledge, capital, licensing

May 30, 16:28:30 PDT> quixotic: which one

May 30, 16:28:39 PDT> Susan 10b: which mashup, em?

May 30, 16:28:42 PDT> Emily: I have all these ideas

May 30, 16:28:57 PDT> Emily: from this one I found

May 30, 16:28:57 PDT> Emily: hold on

May 30, 16:28:57 PDT> Emily: it was sea turtles

May 30, 16:29:03 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) people are going to jail for VOIP in namibia

May 30, 16:29:10 PDT> agenthandy: wow

May 30, 16:29:19 PDT> Susan 10b: i know

May 30, 16:29:21 PDT> agenthandy: why?

May 30, 16:29:47 PDT> Susan 10b: illegal to use wifi in south africa

May 30, 16:29:47 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) - before you can surf, you need: ability to do it, a tool to do it, and the place to do it

May 30, 16:29:54 PDT> Emily: http://www.seaturtle.org/sandbox/animalmap.html

May 30, 16:30:03 PDT> smokinggoat: more telephone lines in Manhattan than in Sub-Saharan african (re-quoted) - so frames complexity of ICT in developing world

May 30, 16:30:12 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) NGOs should not be in netwrking biz, they should buy networking service

May 30, 16:30:12 PDT> Emily: and I started thinking how great maps would be to track different species

May 30, 16:30:26 PDT> smokinggoat: illegal to use wifi in ZA? Hmm, guy from Sangonet is here- maybe I should ask him....

May 30, 16:30:31 PDT> Emily: for environment/wildlife orgs

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> quixotic: the seaturtles thing is awesome

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Susan 10b: this guy the speaker just said it

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Susan 10b: i could ask

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Emily: yup it is

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Emily: I want to write a case study on this one

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Susan 10b: but i think it's really about places with oppressive regimes

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> Susan 10b: controlling the connx

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> Emily: seaturtles.org has other stuff too

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> Susan 10b: oh, b/c of the costs of svc.

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> smokinggoat: sub-Saharan Africa: (1995) - 850 million people, 10% of world population but 0.2% of phone lines (85 million cell phones now)

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> agenthandy: (gender) "women have a "voracious" appetite for communication. our agressive way of talking ... the reason women are successfully communicating online is because they are excellent listeners"

May 30, 16:32:30 PDT> Susan 10b: wieless guy is answering--he said that it is b/c

May 30, 16:32:36 PDT> mike y: From David B.: 50% of humanity has never placed a phone call

May 30, 16:32:45 PDT> Susan 10b: vestigaes of poor policy, poorpolicy

May 30, 16:32:50 PDT> Susan 10b: beleif that one org can do evrything correctly

May 30, 16:32:55 PDT> quixotic:

May 30, 16:33:35 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) kieran lal offers the example of the katrina peoplefinder mashup -- volunteer network

May 30, 16:33:35 PDT> Susan 10b: in south africa, the state wants to protect its assets and get the $$

May 30, 16:33:35 PDT> Susan 10b: not to help the people

May 30, 16:33:41 PDT> KevinMarks: can we build an infrastructure that doesn't need a new charity for each problem?

May 30, 16:33:45 PDT> Susan 10b: i hope that answers your question, em

May 30, 16:34:02 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) built on salesforce, listed on boingboing, 3,000 bloggers showed up

May 30, 16:34:16 PDT> Susan 10b: that's a big questoin Kevin

May 30, 16:34:16 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) - in UGanda - flat rate local wifi phone calls for $10 a month! (BushnetUganda)

May 30, 16:34:42 PDT> Sarah Pullman: more from the gender session please?

May 30, 16:35:20 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) Web2.0 is relevant for Africa - in 5 years (by my thought is - by then, what is Web4.0 by then?)

May 30, 16:35:32 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) two categories that need wifi--communites that have nothing that need it and the model where there is broadband svc in a location

May 30, 16:35:48 PDT> ranvir: in the mashup session. how are the other sessions going? anything super fascinating?

May 30, 16:35:49 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups) Micah Sifry says organisations are wary of releasing control of their data

May 30, 16:35:55 PDT> smokinggoat: Geat comment, Kevin. Same to be said about "online community tools" :-)

May 30, 16:35:56 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) q: how can nonprofits make their data available for mashups? and how do they address the worry that they lose control of their data?

May 30, 16:36:10 PDT> quixotic: i'd like to hear more from the gender session too

May 30, 16:36:13 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) why is municipal broadband gaining popularity in a city like SF which already as wifi

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> Emily: what is going in the gender session?

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) unless barrier to broadband access is dealt with in short-term, Africa will completely miss the boat...

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> ranvir: a guess: because it promises to be cheaper?

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> KevinMarks: how about wifi for San Jose?

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) most networks are employed in the USA

May 30, 16:37:55 PDT> Susan 10b: ruby are you in gender?

May 30, 16:37:57 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) possible that people will use your data and build a better system, but that should just make you more competitive. more likely you will learn about new ways your data can be useful

May 30, 16:37:59 PDT> Susan 10b: or kaliya?

May 30, 16:37:59 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) new spaekr - Partha Pratim Sarker - bytesforall.org

May 30, 16:38:16 PDT> Ruby: yes, I am and Kaliya is here too.

May 30, 16:38:25 PDT> Susan 10b: can you tell us what is going on

May 30, 16:38:31 PDT> Susan 10b: the remote users are asking

May 30, 16:38:59 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashup) theyworkforyou.com is an example of data improvement - taking the official Hansard record and making it more useful by collating MPs speeches and votes

May 30, 16:39:24 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) a review of tech infrastructure in Southasia - with a picture of old electronic typewriters...(stores still selling typewriters - to the govt schools and colleges...)

May 30, 16:39:26 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) various parts of NYC don't have broadband (!!)

May 30, 16:39:33 PDT> Ruby: Susan had each speaker give a brief intro to the issues, and is now asking the audience to talk about technologies that they think are...

May 30, 16:39:35 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashup) Chris M says data roach motels are bad

May 30, 16:39:54 PDT> Ruby: ...open to people across gender.

May 30, 16:40:16 PDT> Susan 10b: "susan had each speaker" susan who?

May 30, 16:40:17 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) railway stations using fiber optic network - for 15 years (and last 10 years only being used for ticket reservations, but now opene dup to GrameenPhone)

May 30, 16:40:35 PDT> Ruby: (gender) some speakers have touched on the fact that women are using the internet more and more, and the different ways they communicate.

May 30, 16:40:38 PDT> Susan 10b: and what are they coming up with ?

May 30, 16:41:14 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) GrammenBank - women bought phones, then became "commu nity communication centers" - i.e.l use her phone for a small fee (wow!)

May 30, 16:41:15 PDT> Ruby: (gender) an audience member is comparing Guerilla News Network - 85% male - with her organization Youth Noise Network which was 85% female until a year and a half ago.

May 30, 16:41:18 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) open data sources "iterate quickly" (i.e. evolve) so that wikipedia quickly becomes as good as or better than ency. brittanica

May 30, 16:41:21 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) largely economic drivers are the reasons why there is wifi or not

May 30, 16:41:51 PDT> Ruby: (gender) I think Rob is in here too. Weigh in, people...

May 30, 16:41:56 PDT> Susan 10b: (the stuff in this talk is pretty obvous, actually, IMHO)

May 30, 16:42:04 PDT> smokinggoat: Ranvir - missed your question, not sure it was for me - I wasn't clear on David's point.

May 30, 16:42:17 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashup) tantek: Gain more by spreading your data so you can focus on improving it not on haording it

May 30, 16:43:02 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) communty radio station - uses existing calbe netowrk for program distribution (radios use cable network)

May 30, 16:43:02 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) case study: corpus christi has wireless meters that talk to mesh nodes installed on lampposts

May 30, 16:43:03 PDT> SnagglepussJones: (wifi) 8mbits in the UK!!! ah, luckily google will be bringing us a nice strawful of 300k to SF.

May 30, 16:43:05 PDT> quixotic: (mashup) m's encourage *movement* sustainability even if they don't preserve organizational sustainability -- they advance social justice, and that should be the goal

May 30, 16:43:30 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) they use the technology fo r otehr stuff like tracing pets,

May 30, 16:44:03 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) center for trade licensing - distributed method to receive applications, then send back licenses

May 30, 16:44:08 PDT> SnagglepussJones: that would be nice, i lost my hamster yesterday

May 30, 16:44:18 PDT> quixotic: aww

May 30, 16:44:25 PDT> SnagglepussJones: i can't say where

May 30, 16:44:27 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) very funny (or sad) snaggle

May 30, 16:44:35 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups) Chris and Tantek pushing Creative commons NC licenses

May 30, 16:44:37 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) chart: mobile penetration higher than land phone and PCs (common trend in all of developing world ....)

May 30, 16:44:38 PDT> quixotic: because you don't know, or because it's unmentionable?

May 30, 16:44:38 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) you could if u were in corpus christi

May 30, 16:44:42 PDT> Ruby: (gender) interesting diuscussion about where women feel safe participating online

May 30, 16:44:48 PDT> SnagglepussJones: i've said too much already

May 30, 16:44:52 PDT> Susan 10b: ew!!

May 30, 16:44:55 PDT> Emily: sounds interesting Ruby

May 30, 16:44:57 PDT> Susan 10b: back on track folks!

May 30, 16:45:05 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICTworld) literacy rate follows (or brings?) - i.e. is tied to technology penetration

May 30, 16:45:36 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) unless cities take charge of their airlways, citizens will nvr get their access back

May 30, 16:45:43 PDT> Ruby: (gender) an audience member is pointing out some the sexism that is built into myspace.

May 30, 16:45:47 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashup): GIS is an area that is tricky in universities

May 30, 16:45:57 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) she compared it to public parks that we can't sleep in or build on

May 30, 16:45:58 PDT> Ruby: (gender) "sexism is alive on the internest because it is alivein real life"

May 30, 16:46:10 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) is web2.0 irrelevant to majority of world? No.... Basic comon priciciples (as compared to community development / coops/ etc): sharing, collaboration, harnassing collective intelligence, p2p sharing [great comparison!]

May 30, 16:46:13 PDT> Susan 10b: how is sexism alivein myspace?

May 30, 16:46:21 PDT> quixotic: ruby, what are they saying about myspace?

May 30, 16:46:32 PDT> Susan 10b: y, how is it sexist, Ruby?

May 30, 16:46:34 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups): Google maps outflanking the GIS community

May 30, 16:46:56 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) techconnect, universal affordable woreless access in SF

May 30, 16:46:58 PDT> Ruby: she talked about how it sexually agressive in gfeneral, but also how the search tool defaults ot searching for females and stuff like that.

May 30, 16:47:12 PDT> quixotic: that's interesting

May 30, 16:47:14 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) 2 levels of dev activities: NGOs, etc; and grassroots orgs and coomunities

May 30, 16:47:14 PDT> Emily: I think google maps are best maps

May 30, 16:47:34 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) mayor newsom came in with the concept that we need to rethink how gov't provides its services

May 30, 16:47:43 PDT> quixotic: i think it's interesting to note which SNSes require you pick one of two genders, which have more than two, and which allow you to not specify it.

May 30, 16:48:02 PDT> Ruby: Agree, Qixotic.

May 30, 16:48:04 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) taking services out to people in need, thru techconnect and homeless connect

May 30, 16:48:13 PDT> smokinggoat: first level: want to build netowrk (blogging/ podcast); feedback systems (wikis) and updated on news and info (via RSS)

May 30, 16:49:06 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) 1/3 of SF residents lack internet access at home--techconnect-- is a sustainable program that will ensure that all san franciscans have access to technology

May 30, 16:49:13 PDT> quixotic-ivan: changed to net2 name + real name, so people aren't confused

May 30, 16:49:48 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) "freemium" services -- 37signals gives you a lot of functionality but then charges you for integration

May 30, 16:50:06 PDT> smokinggoat: secodn level (grassroots, and individuals): have "content" but don't have capacity not connectivity

May 30, 16:50:17 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) tech benefits: low barrier to entry, unprecedented return on investment, level playing field

May 30, 16:50:32 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) techconnect--digital inclusion goals, increased internet access to SF citizens, a portal, with training and support

May 30, 16:51:16 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) city wide wireless, started with a proposal, asked the solution providers to help

May 30, 16:51:23 PDT> smokinggoat: so brainstorm: - cell2web; email2web; rss as asynch connection; integrating other media (radiona dn phone?) - and telecentre solutions (telecentre = CTC) (telecentres have email2web channel for Flickr....?)

May 30, 16:51:38 PDT> smokinggoat: CTC - community technology center

May 30, 16:51:43 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) example: popurls.com -- integrates digg, del.icio.us, furl.net, flickr, youtube

May 30, 16:51:43 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless)--earthlink, google, tropos and motorola were the winners

May 30, 16:52:08 PDT> Susan 10b: what does digg do?

May 30, 16:52:13 PDT> Susan 10b: i forgot

May 30, 16:52:22 PDT> quixotic-ivan: like votable bookmarks

May 30, 16:52:32 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) when will the wifi launch in the city? by the end of this calendar year!!

May 30, 16:52:40 PDT> Susan 10b: ok, i get it

May 30, 16:52:54 PDT> Susan 10b: the most popular tagged item gets pushed to the home pg?

May 30, 16:52:59 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yeah

May 30, 16:53:08 PDT> Susan 10b: got it

May 30, 16:53:21 PDT> Ruby: ((gender) quote of the day: my boyfriend solves technical problems by digging to the bottom, etc. etc. "but I'm like: just fucking fix it!" - Elisa Camahort. :-)

May 30, 16:53:34 PDT> Susan 10b: love that!!

May 30, 16:54:00 PDT> Ruby: (gender) The whole room cracked up.

May 30, 16:54:00 PDT> KevinMarks: ruby: sometimes gaffertape is a good answer, sometimes you do need ot fix the whole thing

May 30, 16:54:03 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashup) theoretical example: ngo-pr.com, an international public relations resource for press -- lists ngo profiles, ping/post blog, aggregate ngo stories

May 30, 16:54:26 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) privacy and performance are issues

May 30, 16:54:34 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) so ngos post on their blogs, ping ngo-pr.com, ngo-pr.com has a real-time database of the latest ngos and their stories

May 30, 16:54:43 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) why is SouthAisa further ahead than Africa? India is a country of contrasts... [no doubt...] There are some big extremes [makes me think of BRazil too.... Even CHina....]

May 30, 16:54:54 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) competition--the city is not granting exclusive rights

May 30, 16:55:06 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) this would use: typepad/bloglines/youtube, technorati/del.icio.us/rrove, zip code database

May 30, 16:55:27 PDT> quixotic-ivan: sorry, ZipCodes API

May 30, 16:55:27 PDT> Ruby: (gender) folks are talking about how women shouldn't apologize for what they don't know.

May 30, 16:56:03 PDT> quixotic-ivan: i think it's this: http://www.programmableweb.com/api/ZipCodes

May 30, 16:56:30 PDT> Ruby: (gender) someone suggested a women's barcamp. I wuld totally be into that.

May 30, 16:56:35 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Does anyone know how to use the virtual bulletin board?

May 30, 16:56:39 PDT> Sarah Pullman: womens' barcamp: yes.

May 30, 16:56:43 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) why Africa not in same place as Idia? (David B) - confluence of issues - legacy of colonialism, investment patterns and current up-front investment costs

May 30, 16:57:08 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: On this page, it says "You can also leave notes for people attending the Santa Clara or online conferences by leaving a comment at the bottom of this page" - but I don't see a comment field at the bottom of the page.

May 30, 16:57:40 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) but you can find a very sophisticated IT environment in parts of South Africa... [personally, I wonder if we should talk about sub-Sharan and non-South African Africa...)

May 30, 16:57:48 PDT> Susan 10b: CY--I think that we are all so taken with the chat and wiki that the thought of ging to the bulletin board is too overwhelming

May 30, 16:58:03 PDT> Susan 10b: I can ask Britt bravo

May 30, 16:58:14 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Susan, thanks. You're probably right, though.

May 30, 16:58:48 PDT> Cyber-Yenta: Still, I'm playing tag with various people that I know are here, but whom I've never met in person. I'm trying to find them.

May 30, 16:59:29 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups) Chris Messina talking about 'coworking' as a tag across services to drive the collaborative office space idea

May 30, 16:59:38 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) wayfaring.com got mentioned

May 30, 16:59:45 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) what are key success factors for telecentres? SouthAsia - whole range of telecenteres (ngos, individuals, govt) - most have training programs; access point to computers basically - as wel as Internet

May 30, 17:00:21 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) raising q's about signing in. EFF.org rep wants to know why a citizen wouold have to sign in

May 30, 17:00:38 PDT> KevinMarks: no I haven't

May 30, 17:00:44 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) best practices: slicing data into smallest possible units

May 30, 17:00:47 PDT> quixotic-ivan: kevin: it was doing that to me too

May 30, 17:01:17 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) resources: programmable web's api list; pro-web's mashup list

May 30, 17:01:22 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) he said that there are privacy issues that they still have to deal w/

May 30, 17:01:22 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups) Tantek on microformats - the web changed what a small org can do

May 30, 17:01:29 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) Grammenn supported telecentre has a digital phot lab; some offer phtoocpyoing services; dev biz models around needs of community [this is also all applicable to US-based CTCs.....]

May 30, 17:01:36 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) http://www.programmableweb.com/

May 30, 17:02:06 PDT> Susan 10b: this would be better in a forum with categories

May 30, 17:02:21 PDT> Susan 10b: i wonder if there is a chat client that can divide into categories

May 30, 17:02:23 PDT> Susan 10b: like a forum

May 30, 17:02:29 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups) tante: more people can do html+css than programming

May 30, 17:02:30 PDT> Susan 10b: for next time

May 30, 17:02:37 PDT> quixotic-ivan: we could append our session to our names

May 30, 17:02:58 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) more telecentere success: sometimes Internet is down, so if all telecenter offers is focused on Internet, you're out of luck

May 30, 17:03:12 PDT> Susan 10b: but it would make it easier to read for the member to choose what talk they want to sit in ono

May 30, 17:03:19 PDT> Ruby: (gender) there are 3 women-led drupal shops: floatleft.org, pingvision.com, and colorful visions (?)

May 30, 17:03:27 PDT> Susan 10b: rather than just seing it piecemeal

May 30, 17:03:42 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) search engines are the "most important user" of the website -- help other people get there

May 30, 17:03:56 PDT> quixotic-ivan: ruby -- i think antharia also uses drupal

May 30, 17:04:30 PDT> Ruby: Are you sure Ivan?

May 30, 17:04:41 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) if you take one thing home tonight, take a look at hcard

May 30, 17:04:49 PDT> quixotic-ivan: ruby, i'm not sure

May 30, 17:05:18 PDT> quixotic-ivan: oop, no, sorry, just checked and they have their own CRM

May 30, 17:05:36 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless)savemuniwireless.org

May 30, 17:05:38 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) online support center - telecneters, offers phone services too; SMS is availalbe in Uganda; (see ugabytes.org)

May 30, 17:05:43 PDT> Ruby: (gender) billy bicket askes if blogher is organizing men who "get it"

May 30, 17:06:00 PDT> KevinMarks: (mashups) use hcalendar for event calendars - add a littel info to your calendar

May 30, 17:06:01 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) hcard allows contact information to become searchable. hcalendar allows events to become searchable

May 30, 17:06:03 PDT> Ruby: I thought so. re: Anthanria.

May 30, 17:06:05 PDT> Susan 10b: billy would ask that! ;)

May 30, 17:06:19 PDT> Susan 10b: he gets it

May 30, 17:06:31 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) muniwireless.com

May 30, 17:06:46 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) ical sucks

May 30, 17:06:54 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) use hcalendar, fools

May 30, 17:07:04 PDT> Susan 10b: anyway, it would be easier to read back l8r if this were segmented in topipcs

May 30, 17:07:23 PDT> Susan 10b: do any of you know about a chat client that would do that?

May 30, 17:07:33 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) uses of Web2.0 tools - audio sent via phone to hekpdesk....

May 30, 17:07:47 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) if you make free wifi without any sign in how do you control who gets to see it or use it?

May 30, 17:07:58 PDT> quixotic-ivan: susan, i agree. i suppose we could all go to a multi-pane irc program ... conduct things like -- what was that four-pane movie? waking life?

May 30, 17:08:17 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) what if they cause harm (i.e. carried through on threats made thru access) how do you help law enforement find them?

May 30, 17:08:36 PDT> Susan 10b: i dunno that film

May 30, 17:08:37 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) will mobile skip desktop? (David) - mobile tech is huge (1 in 2 have access to cell phone in ZA....)

May 30, 17:08:43 PDT> Susan 10b: but it would be better for the next netsquared

May 30, 17:08:49 PDT> Susan 10b: will someone else remember that

May 30, 17:08:56 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) some guy at sxsw had a bunch of parties he wanted to go to, marked up using hcalendar and google maps to figure out if he could make all of them

May 30, 17:09:04 PDT> Susan 10b: or put it up on the next steps part?

May 30, 17:09:07 PDT> Susan 10b: pretty please? :)

May 30, 17:09:09 PDT> smokinggoat: HEy - I suggested starting differneet panels, but noooo. ;-) Woulda meant diffrernt widnows.....

May 30, 17:09:11 PDT> Ruby: (gender) Lisa Stone is talking about how many men are finally getting over their resentment and getting on board with BlogHerCon.

May 30, 17:09:23 PDT> Susan 10b: hey goat, i mean in one panel

May 30, 17:09:33 PDT> Susan 10b: totally different animal

May 30, 17:09:35 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) http://austin.adactio.com/

May 30, 17:09:43 PDT> Ruby: (gender) by example, Dave Winer says he's going, which is a bit of a disincentive for me. :(

May 30, 17:09:54 PDT> Susan 10b: one panel with five panels all for different topics

May 30, 17:09:57 PDT> Susan 10b: :)

May 30, 17:10:06 PDT> smokinggoat: (ICT world) in ZA, you can watch (next?) world cup on cell phone - but it's really expensive....

May 30, 17:10:23 PDT> Susan 10b: (wireless) find out what people want to use the networks for

May 30, 17:10:27 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) taylor mcknight's presentation: http://gtmcknight.com/conferences/2006/netsquared/

May 30, 17:10:33 PDT> smokinggoat: 10b - gotcha... Basically, Gabbly is Wonkkly...

May 30, 17:10:50 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (mashups) ok we are breaking here

May 30, 17:10:53 PDT> Susan 10b: i agree goatly

May 30, 17:10:57 PDT> Ruby: Bye!

May 30, 17:10:57 PDT> Susan 10b: goattly

May 30, 17:10:59 PDT> Susan 10b: bye

May 30, 17:11:09 PDT> Susan 10b: see ya in the social networking talk in 10 mins

May 30, 17:11:26 PDT> Emily: I am interested in hearing about the social networking talk

May 30, 17:11:36 PDT> smokinggoat: We're out, an now I have to wave at buses.... :-) SO no more noise than me.

May 30, 17:11:41 PDT> quixotic-ivan: until the next session...

May 30, 17:11:52 PDT> smokinggoat: no more *from* me (freudian slip?)

May 30, 17:16:13 PDT> Scott M: idea: it seems gabbly can be stuffed into frames. I know frames are generally bad, but it seems possible to stuff four gabbly windows into frams on one page.

May 30, 17:20:49 PDT> Alex: some folks were asking how to post comments on this page

May 30, 17:21:15 PDT> Alex: if you scroll up to the line just above "WELCOME TO THE LIVE HALLWAY CHAT" you'll see teh words "post comment" in red

May 30, 17:21:27 PDT> Alex: oops, I mean "add new comment"

May 30, 17:24:09 PDT> Susan 10b: deborah was asking, alex

May 30, 17:24:16 PDT> Susan 10b: but she's not here anymore

May 30, 17:24:23 PDT> Susan 10b: she was asking about the bulletin board

May 30, 17:24:33 PDT> Susan 10b: you could send her a email

May 30, 17:24:41 PDT> Susan 10b: do you know her email addy

May 30, 17:27:42 PDT> Susan 10b: anyway

May 30, 17:28:00 PDT> Susan 10b: we were also talking about how it would be gr8 if we could have separate panes

May 30, 17:28:08 PDT> Susan 10b: for different topics/rooms

May 30, 17:28:20 PDT> agenthandy: there are only 11 people in the Video & Iliteracy session

May 30, 17:28:23 PDT> Susan 10b: and so we could come in and out to the sessions we wanted to

May 30, 17:28:44 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) there are many people in here like 50

May 30, 17:29:10 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) immigration rallies organized on myspace may not have affected policy, but showed youth the power they can have, and it will happen again

May 30, 17:29:32 PDT> Susan 10b: this tool isn't perfect at all

May 30, 17:29:58 PDT> Susan 10b: what we need fo rthe next net2 conf: different topics like a msg board

May 30, 17:30:10 PDT> Susan 10b: ability to be logged in to all rooms

May 30, 17:30:14 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yes

May 30, 17:30:14 PDT> Susan 10b: an IM feature

May 30, 17:30:24 PDT> quixotic-ivan: i really like the idea of people comenting in real-time on the speakers/sessions

May 30, 17:30:25 PDT> Susan 10b: so if you are being pinged from another room

May 30, 17:30:37 PDT> Susan 10b: you can respond

May 30, 17:30:42 PDT> agenthandy: yes!

May 30, 17:30:47 PDT> Susan 10b: also, a feature to privately IM members

May 30, 17:30:52 PDT> KevinMarks: not sure why hallway and remote are split

May 30, 17:30:55 PDT> quixotic-ivan: quick, write it on a card!

May 30, 17:30:57 PDT> Susan 10b: so now that we have identified four needs

May 30, 17:31:12 PDT> Susan 10b: handy will you put those up on the next stpes area

May 30, 17:31:13 PDT> KevinMarks: sounds like you are describing IRC

May 30, 17:31:15 PDT> Susan 10b: please?

May 30, 17:31:24 PDT> Susan 10b: except without so many windows

May 30, 17:31:27 PDT> quixotic-ivan: i say get the hackers together and let's make it happen by tomorrow morning

May 30, 17:31:29 PDT> Susan 10b: looking like a msg board

May 30, 17:31:30 PDT> agenthandy: can you list them? i came in late

May 30, 17:31:36 PDT> Susan 10b: with topics in one pane

May 30, 17:31:45 PDT> Ruby: I'm in the free specch session now, may not be able to report so much.

May 30, 17:31:57 PDT> quixotic-ivan: are they preventing you from talking?

May 30, 17:31:59 PDT> Leonard Lin: is the backchannel being logged anywhere? i just dropped in

May 30, 17:31:59 PDT> Susan 10b: handy i will IM then to you

May 30, 17:32:10 PDT> agenthandy: gr8 :)

May 30, 17:32:26 PDT> Alex: you can subscribe to the RSS feed for the room

May 30, 17:32:32 PDT> Alex: but you won't get the whole backchannel

May 30, 17:32:39 PDT> KevinMarks: (free speech): Mike L is describing permission culture

May 30, 17:32:40 PDT> Alex: I didn't want to capture all the transcripts

May 30, 17:32:49 PDT> Alex: b/c I think it's helpful for people to feel a little more relaxed

May 30, 17:32:53 PDT> Alex: ie less surveilled?

May 30, 17:32:56 PDT> Susan 10b: we want to easily read what the writers were saying about the sessions

May 30, 17:32:59 PDT> Susan 10b: by topic

May 30, 17:33:09 PDT> Alex: hmm.

May 30, 17:33:16 PDT> Susan 10b: ok, I will start covering this sesh

May 30, 17:33:16 PDT> Alex: Susan, have you stayed logged in all day?

May 30, 17:33:18 PDT> Alex: no, you haven't

May 30, 17:33:19 PDT> Susan 10b: y

May 30, 17:33:27 PDT> Alex: it turns out there are some technical problems with the RSS feed

May 30, 17:33:27 PDT> Leonard Lin: i'm w/ kevin on irc

May 30, 17:33:41 PDT> Susan 10b: y, except for the session that I was notetaker

May 30, 17:33:46 PDT> quixotic-ivan: well if we were using irc we could choose to record or not record individually

May 30, 17:33:47 PDT> Alex: and if you pull it up now you only get the most recent part of the transcript

May 30, 17:33:49 PDT> Susan 10b: but i have been covering the sessiosn i was in

May 30, 17:33:57 PDT> quixotic-ivan: personally being on here means i'm not taking notes, which means i have nothing unless it's logged

May 30, 17:33:58 PDT> Alex: if we had someone who'd been in the room all day they could copy&paste what is i n here

May 30, 17:34:06 PDT> Leonard Lin: or multiple gabbly rooms available, bu that doesn't help w/ the lots of windows bit

May 30, 17:34:44 PDT> Alex: I'm going to see if the GAbbly folks can help us retrieve it

May 30, 17:34:50 PDT> Alex: but I have to confess I'm not too hopeful!

May 30, 17:35:31 PDT> quixotic-ivan: one thing i have noticed -- might just be my browser/wireless cxn, is that sometimes i stop getting msgs and have to reload the page

May 30, 17:35:50 PDT> Susan 10b: m2 ivan

May 30, 17:35:57 PDT> Susan 10b: let's talk about our sessions now

May 30, 17:36:41 PDT> gabber109: Is there a live feed, or live wiki notes from the session on fundraising (writing remote from Boston)

May 30, 17:36:58 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) speaker is talking about releasing the code of the social netwirking platform to the users

May 30, 17:37:00 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) releasing brand to the "wild" -- advocates are going to bring everything back to you and it will become even stronger

May 30, 17:37:01 PDT> agenthandy: we have notetakers at all the sessions

May 30, 17:37:14 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) Ivan and I must be here in the same rm

May 30, 17:37:19 PDT> agenthandy: and they are recording everything as well

May 30, 17:37:24 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yep

May 30, 17:37:27 PDT> gabber109: ARe notes being posted live?

May 30, 17:37:28 PDT> Susan 10b: right handy

May 30, 17:37:33 PDT> Susan 10b: but what has become interesting

May 30, 17:37:45 PDT> Susan 10b: is the back channe questions/comments

May 30, 17:37:51 PDT> agenthandy: they will be posted, not sure how (to gabber 109)

May 30, 17:38:03 PDT> Susan 10b: from the remote participants who are engaging with the live participants

May 30, 17:38:08 PDT> agenthandy: the backchannel has been super cool

May 30, 17:38:22 PDT> gabber109: OK, so if I am hoping for real time, no lucn. Check back tomorrow, or later tonight?

May 30, 17:38:24 PDT> Susan 10b: i have asked a few Qs to the speakers that were asked by the back channels peeps

May 30, 17:38:33 PDT> Alex: ok, before folks log out

May 30, 17:39:01 PDT> Alex: the earliest transcript I can access via rss is 16:47 pst

May 30, 17:39:04 PDT> Alex: so if anyone has a chat window that goes back to earlier in the day

May 30, 17:39:12 PDT> Alex: please copy & paste into an email and store

May 30, 17:39:14 PDT> Alex: thanks!

May 30, 17:39:32 PDT> Alex: we may also be able to find other people who've subscribed to the rss feed

May 30, 17:39:38 PDT> Alex: in which case they'll have the full transcript

May 30, 17:39:58 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) signal-to-noise ratio is obsolete -- original def. talked about mechanical residue in telegraph messages; messages you don't like aren't noise, they're just more "signal"

May 30, 17:40:23 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) in social networks, you're looking for serindipity

May 30, 17:40:30 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) i don't know if i agree with him about this

May 30, 17:40:50 PDT> Susan 10b: i find people randomly all the time, without a tagging structure

May 30, 17:40:53 PDT> quixotic-ivan: about s-t-n or serendipity?

May 30, 17:40:59 PDT> Susan 10b: serendipity

May 30, 17:41:08 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) don't build your own sns.

May 30, 17:41:08 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) don't build your own Social networking site

May 30, 17:41:33 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) this is bad b/c we wanted to do that at TechSooup!

May 30, 17:41:33 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) I guess we shouldn't do it

May 30, 17:41:37 PDT> Emily: why are they saying not to do this?

May 30, 17:41:53 PDT> agenthandy: ?

May 30, 17:41:53 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) b/c there are people out there and plenty of them already

May 30, 17:42:01 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) moving too fast to support problems, you can just start having your own conv. on flickr/myspace/etc

May 30, 17:42:02 PDT> Leonard Lin: emily: b/c you'll end up spending all your time working on features

May 30, 17:42:06 PDT> agenthandy: then don't build anymore web sites

May 30, 17:42:39 PDT> Susan 10b: i know, i am with handy

May 30, 17:42:39 PDT> Leonard Lin: the idea is to leverage existing infrastructure

May 30, 17:42:39 PDT> Susan 10b: i think he's just saying that b/c he is in the biz

May 30, 17:42:39 PDT> Leonard Lin: there's a lot of friction in getting users to sign up and reconnecting

May 30, 17:42:39 PDT> Emily: I think your idea for Techsoup is good

May 30, 17:42:43 PDT> quixotic-ivan: nah, it's like mashups -- you don't build the individual tools (google maps, e.g.) you implement them (podbop)

May 30, 17:43:05 PDT> agenthandy: i like the open api approach to social networking

May 30, 17:43:05 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) i guess he's really meaning the networks are out there

May 30, 17:43:05 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) i think that's what he means

May 30, 17:43:05 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) that's what I want to talk about here

May 30, 17:43:06 PDT> Susan 10b: universal identity and oppen API

May 30, 17:43:16 PDT> agenthandy: yes!

May 30, 17:44:04 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) the social networking site doesn't become a destination

May 30, 17:44:04 PDT> Susan 10b: but it becomes feedable

May 30, 17:44:04 PDT> Susan 10b: to otehr sites

May 30, 17:44:04 PDT> Susan 10b: and there is one profile

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> quixotic-ivan: hey where are these nifty net2 t-shirts all the cool kids are wearing?

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> Susan 10b: i just got kaliya to sign on

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> Susan 10b: b/c this is her idea

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> gabber381: HI

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> agenthandy: you can get a tshirt tonight at the party

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> quixotic-ivan: oh, hot

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> Kaliya: hi

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> Susan 10b: and her specialty

May 30, 17:44:31 PDT> Kaliya: I hear we are talking about identity

May 30, 17:44:33 PDT> Susan 10b: hi Kaliya

May 30, 17:44:47 PDT> Susan 10b: we are talking about how social networking sites

May 30, 17:44:47 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yeah, we're a pretty existential group

May 30, 17:44:55 PDT> Susan 10b: should have one profile

May 30, 17:44:58 PDT> Leonard Lin: there are a lot of useful things you can do w/o digid (discussion should focus around what can happen in the near term)

May 30, 17:45:19 PDT> Tantek: agreed with Leonard

May 30, 17:45:21 PDT> agenthandy: or steps to get where we want to go

May 30, 17:45:29 PDT> Kaliya: i cant see you

May 30, 17:45:32 PDT> Leonard Lin: that being said, sxip 2.0 does federated auth right. just set up a homesite over the weekend

May 30, 17:45:35 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) we can see you kaliya

May 30, 17:45:49 PDT> quixotic-ivan: i just got this idea that it would be really cool to see a map of everyone at the conference and their sns profiles, and how they're connected.

May 30, 17:45:56 PDT> agenthandy: lol

May 30, 17:46:00 PDT> Susan 10b: like frappr

May 30, 17:46:04 PDT> agenthandy: totally

May 30, 17:46:26 PDT> Kaliya: Sxip is not an open standard

May 30, 17:46:28 PDT> Beth: there is a frappr map for net2

May 30, 17:46:30 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yeah but virtual maps not real-world maps

May 30, 17:46:30 PDT> Susan 10b: oh shoot she can't use this tired client

May 30, 17:46:35 PDT> Susan 10b: b/c it only works on IE

May 30, 17:46:37 PDT> quixotic-ivan: like a "map" of the internet

May 30, 17:46:38 PDT> Kaliya: Open ID has gazillions of installs

May 30, 17:46:56 PDT> quixotic-ivan: this works on other browsers, i'm using camino which is gecko (firefox)

May 30, 17:47:08 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) q&a open

May 30, 17:47:30 PDT> Leonard Lin: myspace has gazillions of installs too. and adss. ;)

May 30, 17:47:32 PDT> Susan 10b: ivan where are u?

May 30, 17:47:33 PDT> Kaliya: sorry I can't read anything here

May 30, 17:47:38 PDT> Leonard Lin: s/adss/adds/

May 30, 17:47:41 PDT> Kaliya: cause your fancy 'IM" thing only works on IE

May 30, 17:47:48 PDT> Kaliya: WHY NOT HAVE A REAL IRC CHANNEL

May 30, 17:47:55 PDT> KevinMarks: real IRC++

May 30, 17:48:00 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) rick cohen, nat'l council for nonprofits -- where do you see myspace in five years? general perception is negative news stories about predators. is myspace sustainable?

May 30, 17:48:06 PDT> Leonard Lin: i'm on firefox. but still, irc++

May 30, 17:48:08 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yes to irc

May 30, 17:48:11 PDT> KevinMarks: though cisco is blocking irc ports

May 30, 17:48:25 PDT> quixotic-ivan: susan, i am sitting on the counter on the left with the ibook

May 30, 17:48:30 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) myspace has 78 million profiles

May 30, 17:48:41 PDT> Kaliya: great so much for the networking guys having access to the network

May 30, 17:48:45 PDT> KevinMarks: hey cisco packet sniffers, what about net neutrality?

May 30, 17:48:45 PDT> Susan 10b: with the tie?

May 30, 17:48:55 PDT> quixotic-ivan: yes

May 30, 17:49:04 PDT> Emily: I've been searching myspace for nonprofit profiles

May 30, 17:49:05 PDT> Susan 10b: i am in front of you

May 30, 17:49:07 PDT> Leonard Lin: everyone isn't using a socks proxy or vpn?

May 30, 17:49:16 PDT> Susan 10b: heh

May 30, 17:49:21 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) beebo

May 30, 17:49:27 PDT> quixotic-ivan: my nonprofit is on myspace

May 30, 17:49:31 PDT> Kaliya: I am Identity woman and you can look at my Blog - http://www.identitywoman.net - you can skype me at identitywoman or on AIM - kaliya@mac.com

May 30, 17:49:37 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) international next myspace = beebo

May 30, 17:49:50 PDT> Susan 10b: thx kaliya

May 30, 17:50:09 PDT> Kaliya: there is a lot going on in that industry niche right now relevent to this panel on social networks

May 30, 17:50:21 PDT> Susan 10b: kaliya i will get someone to help you during the break

May 30, 17:50:23 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) q: access for disability? sns can be a lifeline yet most are inaccessible

May 30, 17:50:40 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) a: know it is a problem, high on our list of priorities

May 30, 17:50:47 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (that was from youthnoise)

May 30, 17:51:09 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) right, good popint, those populations need these tools the most

May 30, 17:51:18 PDT> Susan 10b: good point (typo)

May 30, 17:51:46 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) prediction that myspace won't exist in five yrs

May 30, 17:51:47 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) in 5 years myspeace won't exist as it is now

May 30, 17:51:52 PDT> quixotic-ivan: ha

May 30, 17:51:58 PDT> Susan 10b: i have an echoo

May 30, 17:51:58 PDT> quixotic-ivan: network redundancy!

May 30, 17:52:11 PDT> KevinMarks: (free speech) Jibjab cease and desist

May 30, 17:52:27 PDT> agenthandy: (sns) i would hope that no site would be the way it is now in 5 years

May 30, 17:52:27 PDT> Susan 10b: jibjab roolz

May 30, 17:52:36 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) the fickle millenials -- first friendster, then livejournal, then facebook, then myspace...

May 30, 17:52:45 PDT> quixotic-ivan: ps i think i am a millenial

May 30, 17:52:53 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) everybody does not have a laptop, what BS!!

May 30, 17:53:08 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) I am totally in disagreement with him

May 30, 17:53:11 PDT> Setherplast: How you livin, Ranvir?

May 30, 17:53:50 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) many of these networks are just outta beta

May 30, 17:54:33 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network)why don;t they just build them accessibly from the ground up?

May 30, 17:55:01 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) q: how can we exploit these things?

May 30, 17:55:23 PDT> KevinMarks: you can be an identity totem in an SNS

May 30, 17:55:39 PDT> KevinMarks: a thing you can cluster around

May 30, 17:55:59 PDT> Leonard Lin: create a group

May 30, 17:56:20 PDT> KevinMarks: or create a hub identity

May 30, 17:56:30 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) alumni are crazy. perfect sns opportunity.

May 30, 17:56:31 PDT> Leonard Lin: take advantage of the services (blogs, event, photo sharing)

May 30, 17:56:35 PDT> KevinMarks: like the 'fakesters' in frindster thta they tried to kill

May 30, 17:56:49 PDT> Leonard Lin: bands are on myspace, why not ngos/nps

May 30, 17:56:56 PDT> quixotic-ivan: our ngo is

May 30, 17:57:08 PDT> quixotic-ivan: so is the save darfur coalition

May 30, 17:57:09 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netw) there are many NPOs on myspace

May 30, 17:57:42 PDT> Susan 10b: http://www.techsoup.org/community/index.cfm?cg=header&sg=community

May 30, 17:57:49 PDT> Susan 10b: go to the emerging tech forum

May 30, 17:57:57 PDT> Susan 10b: and read our online event from last month

May 30, 17:58:16 PDT> Susan 10b: we had an online event on nonprofits and social networks

May 30, 17:58:26 PDT> evonne: i connect with other NPOs on myspace quite often

May 30, 17:58:39 PDT> evonne: we share videos and embed content, work on viral awareness campaigns

May 30, 17:58:39 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) tribe has 1000's

May 30, 17:58:51 PDT> evonne: i love tribe, much more flexible than myspace imo

May 30, 17:58:54 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) alumni group in facebook

May 30, 17:59:06 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) did anyone read the article in the new yorker about facebook?

May 30, 17:59:06 PDT> quixotic-ivan: lots of things are better than myspace

May 30, 17:59:11 PDT> quixotic-ivan: but the point is everyone uses myspace

May 30, 17:59:24 PDT> evonne: i use omidyar network quite extensively, tribe, more video sharing tools now....myspace is very poorly designed.

May 30, 17:59:25 PDT> Susan 10b: evryone uses tribe too

May 30, 17:59:36 PDT> quixotic-ivan: 78 million?

May 30, 17:59:41 PDT> Susan 10b: omidyar is nice

May 30, 17:59:56 PDT> quixotic-ivan: i think facebook, omidyar, flickr, friendster -- anything is better than myspace

May 30, 17:59:58 PDT> Susan 10b: no, but all my friends use tribe

May 30, 17:59:59 PDT> Susan 10b: :)

May 30, 18:00:00 PDT> quixotic-ivan: but myspace is where the people are

May 30, 18:00:03 PDT> quixotic-ivan: well right

May 30, 18:00:08 PDT> evonne: tribe's a smaller community; 40,000 users .... i feel the same about tribe susan

May 30, 18:00:14 PDT> quixotic-ivan: my friends aren't the target audience, dunno about your friends

May 30, 18:00:17 PDT> evonne: easiest place to connect with my friends....

May 30, 18:00:27 PDT> evonne: omidyar is great for work and global bridgebuilding.

May 30, 18:00:30 PDT> Susan 10b: the founder of tribe was my onine event host

May 30, 18:00:33 PDT> evonne: i love second life for collaborative building and interactive arts

May 30, 18:00:35 PDT> agenthandy: in the gender session it was brought up that myspace is fairly sexist

May 30, 18:00:49 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) open standards used by social netwroks--used by planet work

May 30, 18:01:06 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) inames.com

May 30, 18:01:12 PDT> evonne: i would agree with that agent. the ads are pretty bad.

May 30, 18:01:14 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) on usesrcentric identity

May 30, 18:01:19 PDT> evonne: i really dislike the myspace user experience

May 30, 18:01:28 PDT> agenthandy: i wasn't the one who said it, but i agree

May 30, 18:01:28 PDT> evonne: but it's a useful tool for reaching out, especially to youth

May 30, 18:01:41 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) i hate it too...everytime i go in and post a message to jillions of people...

May 30, 18:01:59 PDT> agenthandy: "people are too sexually agressive" was another point

May 30, 18:02:00 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) emerging topic--open standards, social netowk interaoperability

May 30, 18:02:01 PDT> evonne: i wouldn't spend time there for fun, and i'm still frustrated that i don't have a single tool that lets me get out bulletins to all social networks at once

May 30, 18:02:13 PDT> quixotic-ivan: ah, that's because they don't have open apis

May 30, 18:02:20 PDT> evonne: i get tired of cutting and pasting and want that trillian-style aggregator anyway ;-)

May 30, 18:02:23 PDT> quixotic-ivan: openID...

May 30, 18:02:32 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) identitywoman.org--on open standards and interoperability

May 30, 18:02:55 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) drinking own kool-aid -- how should net2 keep conference attendees together & involved?

May 30, 18:03:11 PDT> Susan 10b: (social netwrk) go to the site identitywoman.org to read kaliya's blog posts on this

May 30, 18:03:13 PDT> evonne: yes, more helpful. i'd like to have a better visual tool for keeping track of my circles. the videoblogs are great....

May 30, 18:03:47 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) barcamp site, free tools, gr8 example of a social network tool

May 30, 18:04:48 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) you have to have a goal, understand what people need and want

May 30, 18:04:56 PDT> quixotic-ivan: our np has several blogs, a wiki, myspace, flickr ... but no participatory things yet.

May 30, 18:05:02 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) go to flikr, technorati, all based on tagging

May 30, 18:05:10 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) use tags!

May 30, 18:05:32 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) link to the tag from your site

May 30, 18:05:52 PDT> Susan 10b: so all people who tag wth taht tag, post photo, people can see it on your site

May 30, 18:06:38 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking)most popular tags, awareness bldg campaign

May 30, 18:06:47 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) why aren't we talking about culture

May 30, 18:06:55 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) what about culture? young constituency self-organizing

May 30, 18:07:03 PDT> quixotic-ivan: incubator & amplifier for culture

May 30, 18:07:14 PDT> quixotic-ivan: funders are geezers

May 30, 18:07:15 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) "not about creating your own OSNs, but about paying attn to culture"

May 30, 18:07:17 PDT> quixotic-ivan: and will die soon

May 30, 18:07:24 PDT> quixotic-ivan: need to be more culturally relevant

May 30, 18:07:29 PDT> Susan 10b: geezers :)

May 30, 18:07:51 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) how are people communicating with each other? pay attn...you enter the community , participate

May 30, 18:08:05 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) put interns/volunteers on the social networks

May 30, 18:08:09 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) put interns onto it

May 30, 18:08:11 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (save darfur does this, incidentally)(

May 30, 18:08:14 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) social change needs to be shaped by the youth

May 30, 18:08:32 PDT> Susan 10b: God i spend my whole life on these things

May 30, 18:08:35 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) sns not about the technology

May 30, 18:08:46 PDT> Susan 10b: i never thought of just sicking an intern on the job!

May 30, 18:09:03 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) cell phone to social networking idea

May 30, 18:09:20 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) attempt to provide relevance for connection and action

May 30, 18:09:28 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) leverage networks that exist

May 30, 18:10:00 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) introducing the brand of NPOs that serve youth

May 30, 18:11:27 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) oh...we gotta listen. damn.

May 30, 18:11:27 PDT> Susan 10b: --I actually disagree, why are they actinglike only kids use this?

May 30, 18:11:35 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) you can watch the ripples from your pebble in the pond

May 30, 18:11:35 PDT> Susan 10b: (i know, shaking head WTF)

May 30, 18:11:35 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) network for good using aimpages

May 30, 18:11:37 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) creating a module to input whatever charities they support, want to do it with yahoo

May 30, 18:11:40 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) module can go on yahoo and AIM pgs

May 30, 18:11:57 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) q: has anyone tried to implement things across all the snses?

May 30, 18:12:05 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) what NPOs can do this to engage their constituents?

May 30, 18:12:12 PDT> Susan 10b: __really good point/question

May 30, 18:12:18 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) moveable profile!!

May 30, 18:12:22 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) yes, the movable profile

May 30, 18:12:25 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) we are heading taht way

May 30, 18:12:33 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (that's not a module, though -- that's just text)

May 30, 18:12:43 PDT> Susan 10b: (social networking) yay avatars!

May 30, 18:12:53 PDT> KevinMarks: sns: consider an extended hCard for moveable profile

May 30, 18:12:57 PDT> Susan 10b: --they aren't very technical

May 30, 18:13:03 PDT> Susan 10b: (IMHO)

May 30, 18:13:05 PDT> Susan 10b: j/k!!

May 30, 18:13:07 PDT> Ruby: I'm looking at the RSS feed from the Hallway, and I can't find anythign from most of this afternoon (specifically my gender reports).

May 30, 18:13:24 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) myspace is a virus

May 30, 18:13:24 PDT> Susan 10b: shit, write to alex samuels

May 30, 18:13:33 PDT> Ruby: OK, thanks Susan.

May 30, 18:13:33 PDT> Susan 10b: ruby

May 30, 18:13:43 PDT> Susan 10b: Alexandra Samuel

May 30, 18:13:47 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) sfusd blocked myspace, flickr and google images

May 30, 18:14:02 PDT> quixotic-ivan: stupid cpa

May 30, 18:14:32 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) cpa?

May 30, 18:14:32 PDT> Kaliya: http://www.identitywoman.net

May 30, 18:14:43 PDT> Kaliya: I just posted about identity standards there

May 30, 18:15:02 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) can find privacy issues on myspeace

May 30, 18:15:02 PDT> quixotic-ivan: child protection act

May 30, 18:15:16 PDT> quixotic-ivan: i think there was copa -- child online protection act

May 30, 18:15:19 PDT> quixotic-ivan: and copa ii

May 30, 18:15:22 PDT> quixotic-ivan: there were several

May 30, 18:15:51 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) priavcy has become a myth

May 30, 18:16:46 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network) significant education piece, students do not see all of dangers in publishing their cell phone number and dorm room on my space or any OSN

May 30, 18:16:58 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) the transparent generation: http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/05/23/the-transparent-generation/

May 30, 18:17:08 PDT> Susan 10b: (social network)pain b/c they are n the first generation of OSN users

May 30, 18:17:13 PDT> quixotic-ivan: (sns) breaking up

May 30, 19:54:03 PDT> mseyfangLearnDog: is this the netsquared hallway?