May 30, 15:56:35 PDT> evonne: At 4PM we have Micki Krimmel from Participant Productions with us in the chatroom.

May 30, 15:56:43 PDT> Alex: she should be great!~

May 30, 15:58:15 PDT> Alex: Participant are the folks who did the new movie, "An inconvenient truth"

May 30, 15:59:04 PDT> Rob: Hi, Micki - welcome to the remote conference!

May 30, 15:59:12 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Hey everyone! So glad to be here.

May 30, 15:59:15 PDT> evonne: There's good photos on Micki's Flickr of the Inconvenient Truth events. Participant also works with Fast Food Nation, Syriana, Murderball and other social-issue related films.

May 30, 15:59:28 PDT> Alex: hi Micki! We're so glad you're doing this.

May 30, 15:59:32 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Me too!

May 30, 15:59:43 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We've also got my colleague, Daniel Hengeveld here.

May 30, 15:59:48 PDT> evonne: Micki, just watched your vlog here. Hello Daniel!

May 30, 15:59:50 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: 'llo

May 30, 16:00:06 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're disappointed we couldn't be there but I hope you're all having fun and learning lots

May 30, 16:00:45 PDT> Rob: Micki, just to get things rolling, would you be able to tell us a little about why Participant has made such a big foray into online activism?

May 30, 16:01:10 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Sure thing. Let's start with the basics.

May 30, 16:01:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Participant was founded in early 2004 by Jeff Skoll, former president of eBay.

May 30, 16:01:39 PDT> Micki Krimmel: The mission of the company is to affect social change through media.

May 30, 16:02:02 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're primarily a film company (so far) but we quickly realized that we needed a strong online presence.

May 30, 16:02:29 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: I think it's also important to note that we aren't an NPO - we mean to make money as well as fix the busted earth.

May 30, 16:02:43 PDT> evonne: So you serve as both producers and promoters for the activating films?

May 30, 16:02:44 PDT> Micki Krimmel: That's true. We're a double bottom line company

May 30, 16:02:48 PDT> Micki Krimmel: That's right

May 30, 16:02:57 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're first and foremost a film finance/production co

May 30, 16:03:17 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We only make films that fit our very specific mission

May 30, 16:03:24 PDT> evonne: That's important. I lead up a social venture NPO creating a new media project in LA -- we have found it's very hard to be purely nonprofit and do our job well.

May 30, 16:03:42 PDT> Micki Krimmel: which is to connect the dots for people. To connect the dots between the moviegoers and the larger issues. So that people undersand their daily deciisions make a difference.

May 30, 16:04:08 PDT> Rob: Was the online connection something you had in mind from the beginning?

May 30, 16:04:28 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Well I came on at Participant very early on - first as an assistant. There were just 3 employees.

May 30, 16:04:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I had been blogging for some time and this was in 2004 when "blog" was the buzzword. So marketers were interestd.

May 30, 16:05:04 PDT> Micki Krimmel: And Jeff Skoll obviously had some knowledge and interest in the internet.

May 30, 16:05:12 PDT> Micki Krimmel: So he and I started brainstorming.

May 30, 16:05:24 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We started off with a very small online campaign for an even smaller documentary.

May 30, 16:05:45 PDT> evonne: Which movie did you start with?

May 30, 16:05:45 PDT> Micki Krimmel: But it got us thinking. And since then, the company has grown a lot.

May 30, 16:05:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We've come a really long way in a very short time

May 30, 16:05:55 PDT> Micki Krimmel: This was a film called "Arna's Children"

May 30, 16:06:01 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Should be available on DVD soon

May 30, 16:06:09 PDT> evonne: I get your HTML emails; they're very effective.

May 30, 16:06:17 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Thanks!

May 30, 16:06:30 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Yeah, Daniel's the man.

May 30, 16:06:40 PDT> rabert: :)

May 30, 16:06:42 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Anyway, we pretty quickly exploded.

May 30, 16:06:46 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: I can confirm that I am *a* man, however *the* man is a matter of some debate.

May 30, 16:06:46 PDT> rabert: boom

May 30, 16:06:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Got into some really big movies.

May 30, 16:06:56 PDT> Micki Krimmel: As you listed already, Rob.

May 30, 16:07:10 PDT> Micki Krimmel: So we had to jump right into the social action side of things too.

May 30, 16:07:10 PDT> rabert: ?

May 30, 16:07:41 PDT> gabber618: hi micki! what was Participate.net's role in creating 'An Inconvienent Truth'? Did you guys approach Al Gore with the idea for a documentary?

May 30, 16:08:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Hey JD!

May 30, 16:08:11 PDT> jdlasica: heyya. you guys rock

May 30, 16:08:22 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: JD, I'm pretty convinced you are Micki's biggest fan.

May 30, 16:08:26 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: after me.

May 30, 16:08:35 PDT> jdlasica: yeah, a burgeoning club

May 30, 16:08:51 PDT> jdlasica: so what's the scoop on al gore?

May 30, 16:08:54 PDT> evonne: I like having the opportunity to spread viral video clips with my networks....trailers and other participation tools....do you see doing more with JD to share more of your work online?

May 30, 16:09:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: There is a great interview on Worldchanging.com with Davis Guggenheim, the director of AIT that goes into a bit of the history.http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004388.html

May 30, 16:09:18 PDT> jdlasica: cool

May 30, 16:09:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: so many questions. i'll try to be coherent here.

May 30, 16:09:56 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We do want to do some more exploration into user-generated content. it fits our model so well.

May 30, 16:11:00 PDT> YannT: hi folks...just thought i'd see what's cooking!

May 30, 16:11:02 PDT> Micki Krimmel: So about an invconvenient truth - we financed that film.

May 30, 16:11:20 PDT> Micki Krimmel: laurie david and lawrence bender saw Al gore's presentation and decided it needed to be a movie.

May 30, 16:11:38 PDT> jdlasica: ah! i saw it 3 weeks ago. chilling stuff.

May 30, 16:11:42 PDT> Micki Krimmel: They brought the idea to Davis Guggenheim (who is a brilliant director) and to us.

May 30, 16:11:56 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Yeah, I mean, I'm clearly biased but this really is the most important movie ever.

May 30, 16:12:12 PDT> Micki Krimmel: it's getting so much press that it's hard to remember what a tiny movie it is.

May 30, 16:12:25 PDT> evonne: really smart trailer you created too. easy to spread and share. the signup campaign was an interesting approach, sort of encouraging participant meetups

May 30, 16:12:26 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We really are counting on grassroots support and bloggers to get the word out there.

May 30, 16:12:30 PDT> Micki Krimmel: the response has been amazing.

May 30, 16:12:52 PDT> Rob: What kind of blogger relation approach have you been taking?

May 30, 16:13:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's really been all about the internet and empowering people to spread the word for us.

May 30, 16:13:08 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Well Paramount Classics has been really smart.

May 30, 16:13:26 PDT> Micki Krimmel: They're the distributor and responsible for marketing the film. We've had a great working relationship with them.

May 30, 16:13:44 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: They show all signs of "getting it".

May 30, 16:13:46 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We had a real grassroots effort where bloggers were invited to screenings, etc.

May 30, 16:14:02 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Paramount has done some really groundbreaking things with this film.

May 30, 16:15:05 PDT> evonne: It's making a dent in tough places.

May 30, 16:15:11 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We hope so.

May 30, 16:15:18 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We had a huge opening weekend.

May 30, 16:15:32 PDT> Rob: Technorati is listing something like 2,877 hits on "an inconvenient truth"

May 30, 16:15:50 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're actually doing a really cool promotion with Technorati

May 30, 16:16:04 PDT> Micki Krimmel: check the blog on climatecrisis.net/blog

May 30, 16:16:18 PDT> evonne: We have a screening room and plan to do a viewing party when it's out on DVD. For now we just videobombed it and shared the campaign via email. Easy to do.

May 30, 16:16:52 PDT> evonne: over 300,000+ views on YouTube for the trailer...

May 30, 16:16:59 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We appreciate your support for sure.

May 30, 16:17:29 PDT> Micki Krimmel: yeah the comment ratio is great too. It's been amazing to track the interest before the movie even came out.

May 30, 16:17:33 PDT> evonne: i'd love to see more remix culture with participant....

May 30, 16:17:44 PDT> Rob: I'd love to know what kind of campaigns have had the best response. Are their particular kinds of actions you ask people to take that get the most uptake?

May 30, 16:18:07 PDT> Rob: sorry, evonne - didn't mean to step on your q

May 30, 16:18:27 PDT> evonne: no worries. yours is a good one rob. please continue micki and daniel!

May 30, 16:18:57 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Well we're seeing (and it makes total sense in hindsight) that people are interested in taking different kinds of actions based on the issue addressed in the film.

May 30, 16:19:06 PDT> Micki Krimmel: North Country addressed a very personal issue.

May 30, 16:19:21 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Here's a press release re: par classics donating 5% of gross to the Climate Alliance Gore is putting together: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060510/law098.html?.v=50

May 30, 16:19:59 PDT> Micki Krimmel: So people downloaded the toolkits a whole lot. Family Violence Prevention Fund provided a pamphlet on how to turn boys into men - how to teach them about respecting women,etc. and this was the most popular item on that site.

May 30, 16:20:23 PDT> Micki Krimmel: For Global Warming, the most important thing to do is really to get the word out.

May 30, 16:20:42 PDT> Micki Krimmel: we need to explain to people that the scientific debate is really just a construct of the main stream media.

May 30, 16:21:03 PDT> Micki Krimmel: So we're mainly pushing awareness.

May 30, 16:21:07 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're calling on people to spread the word because this issue belongs to all of us.

May 30, 16:21:54 PDT> Micki Krimmel: As I said before, our mission is to connect the dots - to make the issues personal for moviegoers. so each campaign includes some personal tools - choices you can make every day to make a different.

May 30, 16:21:57 PDT> Micki Krimmel: difference...

May 30, 16:22:07 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's about participation, after all.

May 30, 16:22:23 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Getting beyond just 'awareness' into 'action' has been the challenge with some ofthe other campaigns - how to measure, et cetera

May 30, 16:22:34 PDT> Micki Krimmel: This is the key topic I was hoping to get to here.

May 30, 16:22:51 PDT> Rob: The mantra I've heard is "If it doesn't happen offline, it doesn't happen"

May 30, 16:22:56 PDT> evonne: How do you track activism?

May 30, 16:22:57 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Gathering download numbers for 'oil reduction guidelines' tells you how many PDFs have been downloaded, but you can't really turn around and say n gallons of oil have been saved

May 30, 16:23:03 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Exactly

May 30, 16:23:36 PDT> evonne: subjective studies among your users won't give you the full picture....

May 30, 16:24:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I don't think there is any way to get the full picture.

May 30, 16:24:10 PDT> Micki Krimmel: The internet is just another medium for conversation, no?

May 30, 16:24:13 PDT> evonne: we get what people want to show

May 30, 16:24:44 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: It has less to do with tagging users with rfids and more to do with constructing campaigns geared toward tracking, if you are serious about tracking.

May 30, 16:24:44 PDT> evonne: key is to give them as many ways to participate as possible, which you are doing well.

May 30, 16:24:48 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I still think that the internet is more for ideas, not DOING stuff

May 30, 16:24:56 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We have petitions online, for example.

May 30, 16:25:04 PDT> Micki Krimmel: when you click that button, what are you really doing?

May 30, 16:25:28 PDT> Micki Krimmel: You're just passing along the information that you care about this issue.

May 30, 16:25:28 PDT> Micki Krimmel: that information still has to go somewhere. Someone offline has to do soemting with it.

May 30, 16:25:35 PDT> evonne: Yes, but that's quickly changing. I call Bangkok, make an animated short and produce comic books while chatting with you here. It's all information, but some of it echoes farther....

May 30, 16:25:37 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: The bridge b/w the online and offline space comes when we can get people to do something like host a screening offline, and then come and start a convo about it on the site.

May 30, 16:25:43 PDT> gillo: that someone is also all of us...

May 30, 16:25:44 PDT> Micki Krimmel: so that's the question.

May 30, 16:25:51 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Is information/conversation social change?

May 30, 16:25:55 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I think yes.

May 30, 16:26:04 PDT> Micki Krimmel: But try to measure it.

May 30, 16:26:04 PDT> gillo: has to be

May 30, 16:26:28 PDT> gillo: consumption and voting habits can change :)

May 30, 16:26:31 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's not about how many people download something

May 30, 16:26:35 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Exactly - and that takes time

May 30, 16:26:49 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's about changing habits and long term trends.

May 30, 16:27:01 PDT> Rob: There's always personal pledges, but those aren't reliable indicators of action

May 30, 16:27:02 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: You can't get a measurable ROI out of a marketing campaign in business, and you shouldn't kill yourself trying to get hard numbers. Awareness campaigns are marketing campaigns for ideas, and the same fuzzy ROI non-math applies.

May 30, 16:27:09 PDT> gillo: sure, and the work done by you folks and the movie is great because you make the issue more accessible.

May 30, 16:27:26 PDT> evonne: absolutely....but while what we consume educates us, not all of us take that education to heart. asking people to pledge to do something, like what you did with Inconvenient Truth, takes it to another level.

May 30, 16:27:28 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Thanks, Gillo.

May 30, 16:27:36 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Right.

May 30, 16:27:45 PDT> evonne: having something to wear, something that reminds us after the theatre lights go up...

May 30, 16:27:48 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're asking users to take ownership of the movie/the issue.

May 30, 16:28:02 PDT> evonne: all of those little pieces become part of us, exactly micki.

May 30, 16:28:31 PDT> evonne: empowerment happens when people believe that they have been entrusted with something to share.

May 30, 16:28:40 PDT> Micki Krimmel: On Participate.net, we're trying to provide a platform for people to talk about these things and to share their own ideas of action.

May 30, 16:28:43 PDT> gillo: I think the movie, in combination with online efforts like treehugger can bring the discussion to another level

May 30, 16:29:06 PDT> gillo: there are solutions that people can adopt in their everyday life

May 30, 16:29:15 PDT> Micki Krimmel: That's the hope. Have you all seen the movie?

May 30, 16:29:16 PDT> Rob: Micki, what's worked in fostering conversations and community on participate.net?

May 30, 16:29:22 PDT> vkm: Is it difficult to manage so many different topics?

May 30, 16:29:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: The end credits are awesome.

May 30, 16:29:47 PDT> gillo: I don't think its here in Europe yet

May 30, 16:29:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: That was my other question I wanted to bring up!

May 30, 16:29:56 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Can you create a community of passionate users around a list of disparate issues?

May 30, 16:30:33 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We have seen a lot of cross-over between issues.

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Not surprisingly, many activists are interested in many themes.

May 30, 16:32:02 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Still, we want to ensure that participate is not just a home for activists.

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're actually trying to do less MANAGING at all

May 30, 16:32:03 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're in the process of restructuring the site a bit to allow for more openness in discussion.

May 30, 16:32:05 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Right now, the conversations are limited to our movies and our campaigns. We're going to open that up and give more control to the users.

May 30, 16:32:30 PDT> Rob: When you make a change like that, do you go whole hog or do you try a toe in the water first?

May 30, 16:32:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Daniel, would you say we're toe-dippers?

May 30, 16:33:35 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Incremental change is the watchword.

May 30, 16:33:35 PDT> evonne: When you say more control for users, where do you see Participant in 3 years?

May 30, 16:33:44 PDT> evonne: (sorry, that was a question shifted midsentence -- i'd like to hear more about your vision longterm for PP)

May 30, 16:33:49 PDT> gillo: related bad question: will, eventually, the movie be released in an "open source" way? (Although I'm sure that's already happening...)

May 30, 16:34:13 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: gillo: that's a q for Paramount Classics, not us, unfortunately.

May 30, 16:34:16 PDT> gillo: not in the short term of course

May 30, 16:34:42 PDT> gillo: right

May 30, 16:34:42 PDT> Micki Krimmel: yeah, that q has come up before. And we're just as anxious to see as anyone else.

May 30, 16:34:57 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Evonne, are you interested in long term vision for PP the company or participate.net?

May 30, 16:35:15 PDT> evonne: For PP, primarily.

May 30, 16:35:38 PDT> evonne: The website will surely echo some of that vision too ;-)

May 30, 16:35:48 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Sure will.

May 30, 16:36:04 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Participant has grown so fast already. 2005 was a huge year for us and 2006 is shaping up to be incredible as well.

May 30, 16:36:16 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's rare that a production company has brand recognition.

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> Micki Krimmel: In a very short time, we've been able to do that.

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're doing some research into expanding into other forms of media.

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> ari: television perhaps?

May 30, 16:36:59 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Participate.net will evolve to include conversations and campaigns for all those things.

May 30, 16:37:06 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Perhaps...

May 30, 16:37:21 PDT> evonne: It's good to bridge. TV is still the most consumed medium worldwide.

May 30, 16:37:36 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Nothing is firm yet but we have spoken publicly about our plans to look into television and some online media as well.

May 30, 16:37:40 PDT> KevinMarks: you sure radio isn't bigger?

May 30, 16:37:57 PDT> gillo: Kevin: agree

May 30, 16:37:58 PDT> Rob: Any prospects for user-generated media?

May 30, 16:38:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Well you should all stay tuned for sure.

May 30, 16:38:07 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I don't really have an answer for that, Rob.

May 30, 16:38:16 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's certainly a great interest of mine!

May 30, 16:38:21 PDT> vkm: have you considered working with non-profits on small projects? or is the focus just on more commercial potential projects?

May 30, 16:38:29 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: The general answer is that all prospects are open for user generated media as we open up the community site.

May 30, 16:38:36 PDT> evonne: do you have advice for social venture producers with likeminded projects for PP?

May 30, 16:38:37 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We've considered all sorts of things. Again, we're still a really new company

May 30, 16:38:38 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: But that's not a very meaningful statement, eh?

May 30, 16:38:55 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're not being coy here.

May 30, 16:39:05 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Participate will be open to all types of media.

May 30, 16:39:19 PDT> Micki Krimmel: But we're not trying to be a destination for user-generated content.

May 30, 16:39:25 PDT> Rob: No coyness inferred. :) Any lessons you can draw for non-profits looking to engage online communities?

May 30, 16:39:29 PDT> evonne: understandable. how should new media ventures approach Participant?

May 30, 16:39:40 PDT> evonne: sorry to step on you there, rob.

May 30, 16:39:46 PDT> Rob: no prob!

May 30, 16:40:07 PDT> jdlasica: we should do something together, kids. Ourmedia is becoming less focused on pointing to stuff on our own servers, so hopefully we can partner in some way on future ventures. (we're a nonprofit, as you know)

May 30, 16:40:30 PDT> Mark Grimes: Great question, Evonne

May 30, 16:40:43 PDT> KevinMarks: jd: can you work on pushing hosting services towards mroe open formats

May 30, 16:40:46 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Lessons for nonprofits... I would say that community is keay

May 30, 16:40:52 PDT> KevinMarks: eg mp4 rather than flash

May 30, 16:41:02 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Your consituency needs to feel ownership over the campaign

May 30, 16:41:13 PDT> Micki Krimmel: The internet is not about pushing info AT people.

May 30, 16:41:20 PDT> evonne: do your contests get a lot of response?

May 30, 16:41:22 PDT> jdlasica: that's worth a day's discussion in itsself, kevin! but we can try to shoot for that.

May 30, 16:41:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: You have the opportunity online to listen to people.

May 30, 16:41:45 PDT> jdlasica: bingo

May 30, 16:42:01 PDT> gillo: and NGOs can also facilitate that dialogue, not control it

May 30, 16:42:07 PDT> Micki Krimmel: The more I think about this lately.. yes, gillo

May 30, 16:42:26 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's the whole idea of providing a platform. Obviouly, NGOs need also to have a goal in mind.

May 30, 16:43:25 PDT> KevinMarks: one great thing about google video compared to youtube is that you can grab the .mp4 they supply for ipods and re-edit it

May 30, 16:43:31 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Your online community should be given the reigns to help you reach that goal. To use the technology to spread the word, to talk about things in a meaningful way and to tell you what they think.

May 30, 16:43:56 PDT> Rob: That's very cool, Micki. What can you tell us about what your community has told you?

May 30, 16:44:16 PDT> evonne: JD and Micki, aggregation on likeminded topics? Infomapping of related videos via tags? We need are easy ways to connect to dots....and refer others.

May 30, 16:44:57 PDT> Mark Grimes: most people forget the Internet is interactive. they also forget it is global. Do you guys have any written case studies yet talking about what has worked best to date for PP with regard to measurable results?

May 30, 16:45:52 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Rob, we've learned really quickly that it's hard to define a track for conversations. the discussion needs to be allowed to be organic.

May 30, 16:45:55 PDT> evonne: We talked a bit about measures earlier Mark; I'll cut and paste that for you.

May 30, 16:46:05 PDT> Mark Grimes: thnx

May 30, 16:46:12 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Mark, we haven't gotten into that yet.

May 30, 16:46:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We've done a lot of brainstorming lately about what measurements are improtant to us.

May 30, 16:46:35 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Is it how many peolple send a petition?

May 30, 16:46:57 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I don't think so. But how do you measure a change in behavior?

May 30, 16:47:15 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I'm interested in seeing the change in how the media portrays global warming before An Inconvenient Truth vs. after.

May 30, 16:47:27 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Yeah, it's tough because we want to measure offline activity where possible, but we don't want people who take non-measurable actions to feel invalidated

May 30, 16:47:45 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Real social change needs to be holistic - part of a real movement.

May 30, 16:47:47 PDT> gillo: there should be some kind of feedback from offline activities

May 30, 16:48:02 PDT> jdlasica: evonne, we have a meeting of the Open Media Coaliton (newly formed) coming up, so if you (or anyone else who may be interested) wants to email me offlist about ways of exchanging tags, media, etc. in easier ways, i'm at jd@well.com

May 30, 16:48:08 PDT> Micki Krimmel: 500 people might download a toolkit and a bunch more might post a blog entry.

May 30, 16:48:15 PDT> jdlasica: sorry, not a commercial plug there. :~)

May 30, 16:48:28 PDT> KevinMarks: count me in, JD

May 30, 16:48:31 PDT> Micki Krimmel: the real change comes when all that brews into a real movment.

May 30, 16:48:34 PDT> evonne: agreed micki and daniel. it's an inside out process that's hard to define.

May 30, 16:48:49 PDT> gillo: but they can also go on the streets, use that toolkit, take pictures and post them on flickr, for example

May 30, 16:49:01 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Until we figure it out, we'll keep monitoring our web stats. :)

May 30, 16:49:13 PDT> Rob: So it's partly a leap of faith?

May 30, 16:49:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Well, it is the movie biz.

May 30, 16:49:36 PDT> Rob: Heh!

May 30, 16:49:43 PDT> evonne: you've done well in a tough market micki

May 30, 16:49:58 PDT> Mark Grimes: agreed. measuring online/offline campagins can be very, very tricky. Even online stats can be very open to various POV's

May 30, 16:50:05 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Mix that with social change and well, yeah faith is a big component. But we feel confident.

May 30, 16:50:16 PDT> Micki Krimmel: yeah, I personally don't put a lot of stock in those numbers.

May 30, 16:50:29 PDT> evonne: i think people want to participate....truth wants to find a voice. key is handing out those microphones at the right time ;-)

May 30, 16:50:32 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: I generally fabricate most of my weekly report, micki. So that's good to hear you say.

May 30, 16:50:34 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I just try to stay as plugged in as possible and see what people are saying out there.

May 30, 16:50:38 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Ha, Daniel.

May 30, 16:50:54 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Evonne, that's such a good point.

May 30, 16:51:07 PDT> Peter Rees: Evonne - agree

May 30, 16:51:09 PDT> evonne: What about post-screening videoblogs?

May 30, 16:51:10 PDT> Micki Krimmel: And plays a big part in how we choose our projects.

May 30, 16:51:17 PDT> ari: When you release the World According to Sesame Street, have you thought about how you'll get kids involved in the conversations

May 30, 16:51:24 PDT> evonne: get people talking publically...

May 30, 16:51:34 PDT> evonne: Good question Ari.

May 30, 16:51:54 PDT> evonne: So tough with COPPA laws and recent social network legislation in discussion...

May 30, 16:52:07 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're still working with Sesame Workshop to see what we can do with that film.

May 30, 16:52:09 PDT> gabber749: Is this LIVE?

May 30, 16:52:19 PDT> gabber702: yep, it's live

May 30, 16:52:19 PDT> evonne: Hello yes, and welcome.

May 30, 16:52:36 PDT> evonne: You are in the last ten minutes of a discussion with Micki Krimmel and Daniel Hengeveld from Participant Productions

May 30, 16:52:36 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It's a documentary about sesame street and is actually aimed more at adults than kids.

May 30, 16:52:40 PDT> gabber749: Greeting from Ireland then. KUDOS

May 30, 16:52:46 PDT> evonne: when is their release date micki?

May 30, 16:52:47 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Welcome, Ireland!

May 30, 16:52:56 PDT> Rob: Thanks, g749!

May 30, 16:53:02 PDT> gabber702: hello in ireland

May 30, 16:53:11 PDT> gabber749: Charlie, Charlie R is the name

May 30, 16:53:15 PDT> gabber702: we're having such a great conference here in San Jose!

May 30, 16:53:18 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I don't know how official the launch date is for Sesame Street. it will be airing on PBS in the fall.

May 30, 16:53:19 PDT> evonne: I've been studying the Sesame Workshop for many years; their model is so unique and extraordinary.

May 30, 16:53:31 PDT> ari: right, but i was thinking you might even be able to put short versions of aspects of the film online aimed at kids

May 30, 16:53:45 PDT> evonne: Maybe talk to PBS.org.

May 30, 16:53:53 PDT> ari: and bring them into the discussion

May 30, 16:54:00 PDT> evonne: Andy Carvin, videoblogger, is doing more there.

May 30, 16:54:00 PDT> Rob: Just to make sure there's something for the gearheads in the audience, Micki, is there anything you'd like to share about how you developed participate.net? The process, how to avoid potential stumbling blocks?

May 30, 16:54:07 PDT> ari: since they will be interested in Sesame Street

May 30, 16:54:13 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Ooh, yes Rob! Thanks for that.

May 30, 16:54:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Evonne, we'll look into that.

May 30, 16:54:31 PDT> gabber749: When do you plan to go live , Evonne

May 30, 16:55:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Participate.net is built on the open source Drupal platform, which I'm sure you've all been talking about lots in San Jose.

May 30, 16:55:22 PDT> gabber749: Should have put an ?

May 30, 16:55:25 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We worked with our friends at Adaptive Path to build the site which launched in Oct.

May 30, 16:55:50 PDT> Micki Krimmel: It was your typical OH MY GOD WE HAVE 3 MONTHS TO LAUNCH THIS WHAT DO WE DO?

May 30, 16:55:51 PDT> evonne: Gabber, not sure which release you refer to. Micki and Daniel's releases with Participant can be found on their website, www.participate.net

May 30, 16:55:57 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Rob, one thing that I can say we learned is that the concept of "technical debt" is very real. Using a lot of custom code to achieve specific goals rather than spending more time integrating standard or community supported solutions from the start

May 30, 16:56:06 PDT> Micki Krimmel: yes that's true.

May 30, 16:56:10 PDT> Micki Krimmel: But we're getting there.

May 30, 16:56:12 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: unfortunately we had hard deadlines.

May 30, 16:56:19 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We're working with Lullabot now. They rules.

May 30, 16:56:20 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: and we are totally getting there

May 30, 16:56:48 PDT> Micki Krimmel: We've been really fortunate to work with some amazingly talented and smart people.

May 30, 16:56:53 PDT> evonne: www.participantproductions.com is the backend for their company -- how many of you work with PP in the office now?

May 30, 16:57:01 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I feel like we're forging new ground too which is exciting.

May 30, 16:57:13 PDT> evonne: For those coming late, maybe recap your role at Participant...

May 30, 16:57:19 PDT> Micki Krimmel: And it's nice to give back to the open source project.

May 30, 16:57:32 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: it's exhilirating to be working in this Hollywood film co. and supporting something like the Drupal project.

May 30, 16:57:41 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Sure thing. There are about 25 people here now.

May 30, 16:57:52 PDT> evonne: You have great jobs and seem to love what you do.

May 30, 16:58:00 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I'm the Director of Internet Outreach so I'm leading the project to build our online community.

May 30, 16:58:07 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Daniel is my faithful compadre.

May 30, 16:58:11 PDT> Micki Krimmel: And we have a blast

May 30, 16:58:13 PDT> evonne: Micki's videoblog on Netsquared is worth watching, and she blogs at WorldChanging too.

May 30, 16:58:23 PDT> evonne: The worldchanging connection is a great fit Micki.

May 30, 16:58:30 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Compadre / Online Content & Community Manager

May 30, 16:58:30 PDT> Peter Rees: yes

May 30, 16:58:31 PDT> evonne: I found you there first.

May 30, 16:58:42 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Worldchanging means a lot to me

May 30, 16:58:45 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Many of my job functions are slowly but surely being replaced by automation. I love computers.

May 30, 16:58:55 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Every time I post, I'm so honored to be a part of it.

May 30, 16:58:59 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Daniel...

May 30, 16:59:01 PDT> evonne: Alex and Jamais have been responsible for much of my education ;-)

May 30, 16:59:02 PDT> Rob: We're reaching 5 o'clock, amigas and amigos. Micki and Daniel, is there anything else you'd like to say? (You're welcome to hang out after, of course!)

May 30, 16:59:20 PDT> Micki Krimmel: it's 5 already?

May 30, 16:59:25 PDT> evonne: Too fast.

May 30, 16:59:36 PDT> evonne: Micki, how can we reach you? Daniel?

May 30, 16:59:38 PDT> Rob: Time flies!

May 30, 17:00:03 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: My blog is over at Neoglam.com - there's a contact form, or you can comment on my posts.

May 30, 17:00:05 PDT> Micki Krimmel: mickikrimmel@gmail.com

May 30, 17:00:08 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Nothing really related to this convo over there, though.

May 30, 17:00:12 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: or danielwh@gmail.com

May 30, 17:00:28 PDT> evonne: Thank you both for making time to share with us.

May 30, 17:00:35 PDT> Rob: Micki and Daniel, thanks so much for being so generous with your time and experience. And everyone who participated, thanks for yourr contributions. This was great.

May 30, 17:00:37 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Sad I can't be there in person but so thankful for this opprotunity

May 30, 17:00:45 PDT> gabber749: Lovely to have come across you people, will peruse

May 30, 17:00:45 PDT> Peter Rees: Thank you as well

May 30, 17:00:48 PDT> gillo: thanks

May 30, 17:00:50 PDT> Micki Krimmel: I'm anxious to hear more and talk about this stuff more deeeply so don't hesitate to contact me!

May 30, 17:00:51 PDT> Mark Grimes: thnx M & D

May 30, 17:00:54 PDT> Mark Grimes: and Evonne

May 30, 17:00:55 PDT> Rob: and evonne, you rock!

May 30, 17:01:09 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: I love to talk gritty nuts and bolts when it comes to architecture, so ping me for that!

May 30, 17:01:13 PDT> evonne: thx, you too Rob, Alex and the organizers...these are good tools.

May 30, 17:01:17 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: (content architecture, not buildings)

May 30, 17:01:22 PDT> Micki Krimmel: And go see An Inconvenient Truth!

May 30, 17:01:24 PDT> evonne: oooh, a drupal expert....excellent....

May 30, 17:01:24 PDT> Daniel Hengeveld: Twice!

May 30, 17:01:30 PDT> Rob: Let's all promise to make Daniel regret that promise. And to go see AIT.

May 30, 17:02:27 PDT> evonne: I'll send an email your way soon. Thanks again.

May 30, 17:02:46 PDT> Micki Krimmel: Thank you!

May 30, 17:02:50 PDT> Micki Krimmel: There will be a transcript of this, right?

May 30, 17:03:22 PDT> Rob: There will indeed, posted soon. (Apparently it takes a little effort to clean up the Gabbly cruft, but nothing prohibitive.)

May 30, 17:03:43 PDT> vkm: where should we go to find the transcripts when posted?

May 30, 17:04:57 PDT> Rob: I'll have that info in just a sec.

May 30, 17:07:07 PDT> Rob: The transcripts of all the chat sessions will be posted right here at http://www.netsquared.org/remote sometime tomorrow, Thursday at the latest.