Be NetSquared: Year 3
Want a N2Y3 recap? View attendee blogs, vlogs and comments at Be NetSquared.
First off, thanks for your patience as we work through the technical problems on the site. We've been, as Britt said, overwhelmed by your response. You all have certainly being doing your job -- getting out the vote. We've slipped on ours -- keeping the site stable and strong while your responses poured in.
And we know you have suggestions for us: give it to us. Tell you what you think we could and should have done. Tell us that you wanted judges, tell us that you're worried that the projects with the biggest networks will win, tell us that we should have been prepared for the overwhelming response. Really, we want to hear it.
Alright. I'm ready. Drop your thoughts in the comments to this blog post. You can do that without even being registered...
Comments
NetSquared Results & Commentary
This article (with updates) can also be found here: http://collectiveinsight.net/netsquared-results-commentary I found out late Wednesday that CommunityGoals did not make the top 21 of 150 projects at NetSquared. Even so, going through the application process was very beneficial. NetSquared was a focusing event that encouraged me to engage the broader community. For that I am thankful. I am also thankful that something like NetSquared got rolling. I may have some complaints about the mechanism for proposal selection, but I think its mission is very valuable. I wish the winning projects good luck at the N2Y2 conference and beyond!
Criticism
I knew going in to the NetSquare competition that the process would be a contestant-driven popularity contest. Winning was a matter of rallying the most support. Some organizations already had more people involved and thus could tap into larger networks. Picking the right voting mechanism for the job is difficult. As Arrow's Impossibility Theorem states, there is no one "correct" mechanism for revealing the preference for a group of people in most situations. Each voting mechanism has its pros and cons. The "best" we can do is pick a voting mechanism that satisfies the most important criteria for the problem at hand. What criteria are important to me? I will phrase them as questions: 1. Was the process aligned with the organizational mission? NetSquared published their guidelines for projects, but they were only guidelines. The Web voters were free to vote for projects as they saw fit. It is hard to say if people used NetSquared's guidelines when making their decisions. What do you think? Let me ask this: if NetSquared wanted to put more weight on their guidelines, how could they have done this? Perhaps they could require every voter to evaluate each proposal for each guideline? Perhaps they could have used an independent panel that evaluated the projects against the NetSquared Criteria? I will think about these questions and hope to follow up with another post. 2. Was the process transparent? Last time I checked, TechSoup does not plan on releasing the voting results. The results should be released (anonymously if necessary); not doing so undermines transparency. 3. Did the process include the appropriate people? Unless the NetSquared voting statistics are released (and they should!), I can only speculate. The NetSquared process selected popular projects with many friends, not necessarily projects that aligned with their guidelines. My hunch is that at least 90% of potential voters were brought into the process because a contestant asked them to participate. As a result, their primary allegiance was to one project. But each potential voter had to register for an account and also pick at least four other projects. Many people left without even registering. Those that registered still had to choose from over 150 projects; such a decision was perceived as overwhelming. This led many potential voters to leave before voting at all. And for those that voted, many (if not most) probably voted for a slate recommended by their top choice. In summary, I doubt that the process included the appropriate people. To be truly effective (i.e. not just a popularity contest), the process would need to attract people who have no allegiance to the projects at hand. This would encourage voters to choose projects based on the guidelines instead of peer pressure. The pool of participants would need to be broadened significant for this to happen, and participants would have to have some sort of incentive for doing so. Perhaps the intrinsic motivation of people to speak their opinion would be incentive enough? I would like to hear your suggestions, too. Ask these questions of your project, too! The above questions are not formal "voting criteria" that you might find in a political science journal article, but I think they capture the essence of what I find important. These are important questions for NetSquared, but they apply much more generally. Anyone who is designing a process for decision making and consensus building must answer these questions. Including myself! CommunityGoals embodies a particular decision making process. I will strive to make that process as transparent as possible. I will also help guide people to understand what sorts of problems are best addressed with that process.
Conclusion
Don't get me wrong; NetSquared should be commended for their efforts. Yes, I think they've made some mistakes, but that's life. They are doing good work and they will learn as they go. They are trailblazing a new path! Help them by offering your comments, criticisms, and suggestions.
You Did It!
A great step forward
The winners of the NetSquared competition are out. We at xigi didn’t make it, but some great projects did. I’m glad to have participated and next year we will be more involved more early I think something new and really good is happening with this competition
The democratization of funding, the use of the wisdom of crowds to decide how to fund good projects is really something new and important. I’m glad to have been a part of it and want to engage more with Net Squared community. This thread shows that democracy is a messy process. But as a community we have to realize this is all a workin progress and that the process of harnessing the wisdom of crowds is not a simple one. There is a big win in the enthusiasm this competition attracted, the attention and the change in the fund raising process. It was transparent, in contrast to the typical foundation and donor process. It's not even a beta folks, this was an awesome proof of concept. Hooray for the organizers and the passionate people who played this new game. It's tough to lose; I realize our messaging at xigi did not emphasize the community building aspects that voters really valued; if I'd taken a more strategic look at the kind of process involved, we would have adjusted and adapted to this venue. Next time, we will tell our story better and have a better understanding of the kinds of things people vote for.
As one of the homecoming queens..
let me first of all say THANK YOU to everyone that voted for Kabissa 2.0 - our whole team is very excited and we are all pleased that our proposal did so well. We can't wait to for the reunion in San Jose!
And THANK YOU also to the Net2 team for pulling this off - we have organized similar (much smaller) voting campaigns, so we've been there and we "felt your pain" during the difficulties you had during the voting process.
I am still processing my feelings about all of this - the voting was frustrating for us too - and I will have more feedback later about lessons we have learned through this experience. Thanks, Net2, for trailblazing and making all these mistakes for us so we don't have to. ;-)
Already now though I have one piece of feedback for all of us:
And my two pieces of feedback for the Netsquared team:
Thanks again!
Cheers,
Tobias
--
Tobias Eigen
Co-Executive Director
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa
http:/www.kabissa.org
Reverse engineering..
The data hungry amongst you might be interested in this:
After making my comments above I remembered that when I searched for my name using the net2 search form at one point I (I was trying to find a blog post) I actually saw my ballot on the search results. I submitted an email to the web admin about this since it didn't seem intended.
Today I checked again and realized two things:
Yes, I'm a hacker - what can I say. Anyway, seeing this information makes me even more interested in a completely transparent member directory and ballots.
Cheers,
Tobias
--
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa
http:/www.kabissa.org
Results vs order in the
Results vs order in the voting list (alphabetic)
100 Innovators - 1
NABUUR.com - 4
MAPLight.org - 5
Problems Through Social Networking Sites - 8
An Anti-Genocide Community - 10
Aspiration Social Source Commons - 12
Big Brothers Big Sisters Agency Information Management (AIM) System - 16
Very strange?
7 selected projects are in the first 16 places in the voting list.???
In the ballot, the projects have been displayed in alphabetic order and in the results 1/3 of the selected projects are in the first places in the voting list.
Very strange? right?
To several of the points
To several of the points already made here, I think the option of viewing the list alphabetically should have been the last option instead of the first. And the option to view the list randomly should have been the first viewing option. Also, I would hope that the random view would be different for every user.
I chose to view the list alphabetically, for no other reason than it was the first choice, and by the time I got about 1/3 of the way through the proposals, I was already up to my 10 project limit and was frankly a bit tired of reading through them all so I just stopped there. I simply didn't have time to read through every one of the proposals - Yes, I should have taken more time, but I'm guessing that my experience is not unusual (especially for those who came to the site to vote for one specific project and then had to choose others to vote for a well).
So it's no surprise to me that so many of the finalists are in the beginnings of the alphabet. So the lesson here to contestants is to put the letter 'A' in front of your project if you want to get noticed.
mmm very strange, five
mmm very strange, five projects start with "A", and they have been in first places in the voting list? and the project "100 innovators" has been the first project in the voting list?.
Is this the strange hand of stats? or the people just chose the first projects in the voting list.
Please publish the list of projects with the number of votes, in the same order as the voting list (alphabetic order).
Please Post Number of Votes Per Project
I wanted to wish NetSquared congratulations on getting through the learning process and moving towards good. Also, congratulations to the projects that received the most votes - an exciting time indeed!
i am wondering when and where the number of votes per project will be posted. Usually in a voting scenario full disclosure helps the project members to know where they stand respective to others, but primarily proves, at least in part, that the 'vote' isn't fixed. Upholding standards of transparency and fairness it would make sense to get that info up as soon as possible.
Thanks! i look forward to seeing those numbers. :-)
...jay
Jay Baydala
ChristmasFuture
c: 403.835.5444
e: jay.baydala@christmasfuture.org
::::::::::::::::: check us out on www.christmasfuture.org :::::::::::::::::
Congratulations. Rather
Congratulations. Rather than determine the 20 most innovative social web projects, I strongly believe you put many, many people through countless hours of trouble to determine the 20 projects with the most votes.
Reminds me of the days we used to vote for Hoemcoming King and Queen.
This has been a very sad joke. I have seen the future, and I want to get off ...
Great ideas, but don't miss the forest for the trees
Nothing like some stinging criticism to force constant improvement, huh? Lots of great comments below. I hope that many of them get incorporated into next year's conference. But while the frustrations are real and understandable, let's remember the goal of NetSquared.
[I posted the rest of this in the main blog, but repost it here as it is directly relevant to this thread]
I don’t believe in The Wisdom of Crowds as an absolute. There is an equal compelling book called The Madness of Crowds. But either way, NetSquared should not be judged solely on the process that was chosen to select the 20 projects that will qualify for the conference.
I’ve talked to a lot of people about NetSquared. Smart venture capitalists, big foundations, and social innovators and they have been resoundingly excited. What they see is not some sort of new selection process, but a community of driven social entrepreneurs that is managing to leverage their user base and their networks to bring social, intellectual and financial capital to the table.
Will the process bring the 20 “best” projects to the conference? We don’t know. In the book, The Wisdom of Crowds, Surowiecki tells a story of a search for a lost submarine. The searchers use a process of aggregating the location guesses of people who should be able to make a good estimate and find the submarine at that exact place. But not one of the experts picked the location on their own. So the 20 projects that are picked today might NOT be the ones that even the smartest people on this site would have picked. But regardless, I do believe they will be 20 great projects and the goal of NetSquared will be one step closer.
Life’s not perfect. Next year, the voting process can incorporate some of the ideas that user have been submitting. Many of them are great ideas. But I believe strongly that NetSquared is already a success, already a Watershed Event. I look forward to seeing which projects will be at the conference and even more, I look forward to seeing the application of social, intellectual and financial capital that is waiting in the wings to help these projects succeed.
Sean Stannard-Stockton
Nothing But Time Would Be Lost in a Do Over
We know a lot more about the pitfalls of the past approach. Let's implement our collective intelligence and vote again. There's no shame in not foreseeing the consequences unless you're George Bush. The beauty of the web is that all this can easily be redesigned.
Peter Nichols
Key to informed voting? An informed electorate - no really it is
michael gibbons buttons of hope
Some thoughts on a selection process (voting):
I am sure (especially after the voting fiasco(s) that my friends and family all 25 or so of them did not read 5 proposals let alone the 25 or 30 they might need to make an informed decision -- I am sure they all voted for me and four others -- so what. Most had no clue what a NetSquared was!
Selfishly my elevator pitch was crap but my proposal genius --oh well not sure how many even made it to my full proposal -- it was good!
Even I (motivated) did not have enough time to read all 150 proposals -- embarrassed to say how many i actually did read in depth -- I read the ones I voted for which is good BUT what if there were a couple I should have read, that deserved to win?
So here is one pretty easy solution -- I have spent a lot of time on this sight(like other submitters) the past few weeks reading projects, the slate, blogs and comments -- the key to informed voting is an informed electorate -- no really it is! I am and my fellow contestants are the most informed and motivated group.
Here is what i would do in 2008 -- it's not as complicated as it sounds. Set up three voting blocks:
- public family, friends and colleagues -- they vote for one project
- each project submitter(organization) gets two votes -- they each vote for 10 projects
- the N2 staff, board, gurus whatever -- each vote for 10 projects
This way you keep the popularity contest part(buzz) intact -- hey it's America right! Weight the three voting blocks if you like -- but this way you will be assured to have two blocks, a majority of well informed voters -- who understand what this is all about!That's a pretty good idea.
That's a pretty good idea.
Thanks for your thoughts, Michael
(side note: we are going to be setting up a feedback page soon to aggregate all of the thoughtful comments we are getting)
Michael,
As soon as this year is over, we do need to talk about how to better deliver on an informed electorate. A lot of people have had ideas -- emphasizing the conversation and engagement, improving the UI, doing voting in rounds, utilizing judges in one way or another. Right now, we're just collecting ides so keep them coming but, starting June 1, we are going to have to make some decisions about which and how to implement.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
What is the goal of NetSquared?
I had thought this conference was about ideas: getting the 20 best web-using/world-changing ideas you can find to a conference where you can look at them in depth.
When I first saw that you'd be using an open online vote - with no identity authentication - I questioned whether this is the best way to achieve the goal. I have never seen the "wisdom of crowds" work without help from careful, generally flat-out ingenious top-down design ... for every Digg or Wikipedia, using communities and openness to create great content, there are 100 sites that didn't quite have the standards of conduct, the enforcers, or the constantly refined anti-gaming algorithms, and devolved into chaos and crap.
At first I thought NetSquared was sure of its ability to provide this kind of ingenious top-down design, but the more I saw of its strategies and what it's telling people to do, the more I questioned whether it's even trying to stop this from being the hacking/popularity contest that "open online vote" makes me think of. The ballot has no context on it; you have to click links/download PDFs to get any details on the projects at all. (I suggested putting at least the project summary, or elevator pitch, right on the ballot so people couldn't vote without scrolling around - I was ignored.) Far from encouraging people to read through all the proposals, Net2 has discouraged it, encouraging people to search by category (even though presumably no particular category is more or less in line with using the web to change the world).
I also suggested having 2 rounds of voting - the first can be a popularity contest, so long as it cuts the list down to the point where people can reasonably look at all the proposals. This would have made at least step 2 meritocratic, while getting rid of non-serious projects in step 1. I was ignored.
I thought the "slate" idea was an attempt to help people vote on merit, rather than just vote for their friends. But in that case, I would have expected the NetSquared staff and N2Y2 advocates to submit much more than they have. Even Daniel Ben-Horin only submitted his preliminary suggestions, back when half the projects hadn't even been submitted. Not a word from Britt or Marnie. Instead, Net2 has been silent/approving while people have submitted list after list with their project at the top and little to no explanation of their criteria.
Then I saw the "get out the vote" emails Net2 sent me, and I really wondered whether they have ANY interest in a contest determined by proposal quality. I've been concerned this whole time that if it takes 3 hours to make an informed decision (I think that's a minimum with 150 projects), and 5 minutes to vote for a friend, that the voting is going to be flooded by those who haven't even tried to inform themselves. But far from discouraging this, Net2 has encouraged it. I've been told to email everyone I know, set up a website to walk them through the process, provide my suggestions so they don't have to make any decisions for themselves, and generally make this something they can do in seconds, thereby guaranteeing that they don't consider other projects aside from my say-so.
Now Net2 asks for feedback, and rather than bringing up ANY of these issues, people have focused on making voting EASIER. 3 hours to make an informed decision, and everyone is thinking about how to cut the time it takes to vote for your friend from 5 minutes to 30 seconds.
So at this point, I'm not even sure whether I have a criticism. There is no question that this "flood the vote" attitude has generated way more publicity for NetSquared than trying to focus on project quality would have. And maybe that was the goal all along. So here's my question: were you trying to find the 20 best projects, or trying to generate as much "buzz" as possible around 20 essentially random (or already popular) projects?
Buzz
I have to agree with Holden. Why shouldn't we believe that the sole purpose of this contest was primarily done to generate "buzz" for Netsquared? How could Netsquared ever think that soliciting our own votes was the best way to choose one proposal over another? Also, why would Netsquared be so willing to fork out financial assistance to any organization lacking a clear mission/financial plan, all because it had a vote majority?
There is no reason you should believe it
Except that we're saying it. We did this to try and surface the projects that the community sees as value. There is certainly elements to a popularity contest to this and we've benefited from the publicity, certainly.
But we're trying hard here to get out of the way of the community and letting them nominate and select the projects and then connect them to resources that we believe will move them forward.
We certainly had a lot of internal conversations about the issue you raise but ultimately we decided that the bet was worth it. If all we were after was buzz, there are probably other ways that we could have spent the money.
Thanks again for sharing your concerns.
(edit to fix typo in title)
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
random voting
I found this Q & A at this link http://www.netsquared.org/projects/vote/faq
----------
Q. But won't people just pick their project and then pick four more at random?
We can see behind the curtain and the results, to date, don't indicate that that is what folks are doing. And we worried about that too. Ultimately, we decided to trust the community and ask them not to do that and, instead, to take some time and choose the projects they really are interested in. If our trust is misplaced, well, we'd rather make a mistake because we trusted the community than make one because we didn't.
---------
What a bunch of bologna! How could you possibly tell that people are not voting randomly? I know for a fact that my supporters did, after tearing their hair out over this mind numbing voting procedure. There was so much information and instruction with this voting, how could you blame anyone for doing so? Supporters simply came to the Netsquared site to vote for their friends/family in this glorified popularity contest, and to get on with their lives and back to work as soon as possible. You'd have more accurate results shaking a Magic 8-Ball to decide winners.
Thanks for sharing the experience of your voters
We appreciate it and I'm sure that what you say is right.
What appears to be true is that people, while perhaps voting randomly, are not, at random, selecting the same projects so, in aggregate, we aren't necessarily seeing that effect.
Of course, we have to make the voting easier to plug in to -- in an informed way -- which is still going to require a level of work on the part of the folks doing the voting.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
Help me understand the evidence
I'm not sure how I would ever be able to assess whether people are picking "random projects." Except, perhaps, by having a separate idea of what the "good projects" are and comparing the picked projects against that.
It seems equally possible that people are blindly following the suggestions of their friends (which would lead to correlated picks) and that they are just voting at random (which would lead to uncorrelated picks). Both of these seem more likely than that people are taking the hours to make a semi-informed decision, but they would lead to opposite predictions. I just don't see how you'd measure what you're saying.
I don't follow at all what you say above: "people, while perhaps voting randomly, are not, at random, selecting the same projects so, in aggregate, we aren't necessarily seeing that effect." Do you mean that people are not all voting for the same projects? Isn't that exactly what we'd expect if people WERE voting randomly?
Actually, here's a way to measure
One way to get an idea of whether people voted "randomly" would be to publish the distribution of "# minutes between membership authentication and ballot submission."
When someone authenticates their membership (by entering their temp password or clicking the link in their email), presumably that's when they start making their actual decision. I'd say anyone who voted less than 3 hours after clicking the confirmation was either doing a dupe submission, or couldn't have had the time for an informed vote.
If you do check this out, do me a favor and PLEASE don't just publish the mean. I really hate when people do this because the mean is often a distorting number: people like me went weeks between membership and voting, and that will drag up the number and leave us with something meaningless like "7 hours." What we really want is a table: how many people voted within 10min of signing up, how many voted within an hour, how many within 3 hours, 5 hours, 10 hours, 24 hours, and 24+, something like that. I'm actually interested to see this; I think it will give a pretty good idea of what went down.
I'm not sure if we can do that
One of the things on the list for next year is to figure out how to add a community measure -- it could be something like what you write above.
There is no way for us to be sure, Holden, and I can probably talk more about this once the results have been verified and published but I can't quite do it right now.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
Not sure what you mean
I don't know what you mean by "community measure." I'm just suggesting that you put together the table above in order to get a look at how much time people likely put into their decisions this year. It could be really revealing, especially if you break it up by project too and see if particular projects benefited from people who put in less time. You could learn a lot for next year. I'm not asking that you do this "right now," but if you have logs of what happened when (i.e., when each user became confirmed and when each user first submitted a ballot), it should be easy to put together when things settle down a bit.
FYI, I think this would be a meaningful measure of whether people voted randomly - but I still don't understand the method you're referring to of gauging the same thing (or any way that you'd be able to see this from *what* projects people voted for).
Thanks for clarifying your suggestion, Holden
By community measure I mean some way of understanding how involved the projects and voters have been overtime. I'm not sure what I mean actually. Just that one of the comments that seem to have come up is that people are only plugging in to vote and so we might want to illuminate that. Don't have anything more specific other than that.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
So just to make sure -
1. What you said before to the effect of "We have looked behind the curtain, and it doesn't appear that people are voting randomly" is false? (That's the impression I get from your last couple msg's - that that statement was misguided (understandable) and that really how informed the voting has been is anyone's guess at this point.)
2. You have noted my suggestion for how to get a better idea of how informed the voting has been? (What I am suggesting is simple and straightforward, whether or not I explained it that way - so let me know if it isn't clear.)
To clarify
Thanks for pushing your question, Holden.
1. You are right, Holden, people are variously informed, and for many reasons, about the projects upon which they were voting. We do not have any evidence that people voted randomly on the same random projects.
2. I hear your suggestion loud and clear. I'm not sure that is the best way to check for informed voters (a voter might have studied the proposals, for example, and not registered until they had to to actually place their vote).
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
Goals, Strategies, Methods, Objectives, Results, & Hacking
Hi Holden,
Your view about “getting the 20 best web-using/world-changing ideas” is spot on, though this objective represents only a subset of the broader NetSquared organizational goals. However, I take exception to your use of the term “strategies” where other words, (e.g. methods, results, objectives) seem meaningful, or at least, used correctly.
For several reasons, I must respectfully disagree with your suggestion that all voters need to be encouraged to read all the proposals. While you and I, and many others certainly did read all of the proposals, most “friends of associations” will put most of their energy into the category that they have the most interest in first, and will run out of time before they can digest the remainder. Acting on partial information is still preferable to just voting for your friends or your employer. If you believe that one should ask voters to invest 3 or more hours in the evaluation process, then you will have appealed successfully to a rather small group of voters. Isn’t it preferable, or at least more representative of real world expectations, to have a large sample of partially-informed votes?
I do agree with your 2-step approach, and suspect that the general idea will work its’ way into future polling, voting, and survey applications.
While there might be a hacker out there, most hacking is detectable. The problem of one person creating many registrations and ballots can generally be trapped when a high percentage of the votes come from only 1 or 2 IP addresses. Even spoofing IP addresses can be spotted from log analysis.
I'd be more upset to learn that a gaming algorithm was being publicized within an organization, as that would demonstrate a conspiracy to tip the balance. Even if there were such an evil cabal in our midst, it's doubtful that it would go undetected.
Notwithstanding, I really appreciate your critique, as the concerns and dangers are ones that we should all be concerned with and on the lookout for.
Kind regards,
Rich Reader
Categories and gaming
On categories: this is debatable. I think people should be broadly looking to improve the world, not narrowly jumping to their pet cause, and furthermore I think they would be looking broadly if it were logistically feasible. But as you say, there is an argument that narrowing by category is consistent with informed voting ... although I would like to point out that if I'd known beforehand how these categories were going to be used, I would have been way more liberal with how I categorized the project I submitted.
Regarding hacking, I really hope that what you're saying is not the extent of your anti-hack checks. I'm no hacker, but it seems like a good bet to me that if you use a dial-up connection and a script that disconnects and reconnects (thus generating legitimately different IPs) ... while filling in email addresses using a baby name list and a *@domain.com approach ... it would get around what you're saying pretty neatly.
Sites with successful "wisdom of crowds" design are constantly, and mean constantly, improving their anti-gaming mechanisms. Digg would never limit itself to the kind of protection you describe.
anti-hack checks
Of course there are plenty of additional anti-hacking measures that can be taken.
For example, visible text verification keeps hacking from being a machine-run activitiy.
We certainly are NOT trying to get random projects picked
Holden,
Thanks again for taking the time to let us know what you think. We appreciate it.
You asked: "were you trying to find the 20 best projects, or trying to generate as much "buzz" as possible around 20 essentially random (or already popular) projects?"
We are trying to get 20 great projects as selected by the community. After a lot of internal back and forth on the best way to represent great projects, we decided on a community selection process. We choose to have people to vote for more than one project to try and level the playing field between projects with a great network of supporters and projects without.
We don't expect that we choose perfectly and many of the issues you bring up (and others have brought up) about user design are good ones. We tried to give people ways to sort the projects and to download project descriptions and still make the actual voting easy enough to do.
We know we have a lot more to do on this and next year will be better.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
Usability Design, UI, User-Experience, Performance & Unit Test
In the heat of the passion to get things done, many unintended, unforeseen, and undesirable results are a natural by-product, which is especially true in web development. The first lesson learned is that to roll out a contest of this magnitude, more time is needed in disciplines that make an application ready for primetime and high-volume use. It would have been great to have had one week for a private β-test among members, and another week (or even two) for iterative development, followed by a readiness evaluation committee. Not to toot anyone’s horn, certainly, but I’ve been an internet project manager in the private sector for 10 years where it’s been made abundantly clear to everyone that these are the types of timelines that have been (and are currently) considered to be best practices.
We all have to wonder how many of the people that we can get back to with news of the extended deadline will actually read and heed the call.
From the many people that the Wixárika Research Center wrote to and called by phone to drum up support for the Huichol Cultural Survival proposal, most nearly all of the usability comments that have been discussed already were received, but two unique gems have filtered in:
I personally found several issues from the content creator’s perspective. Knowing that the presentation has to be high quality, it would be desirable to have a more fully-featured rich-text editor that:
UI is high on the June 1st list
Rich,
I hear you. There are many things that can be done to better design the experience on the site as a whole and the voting experience specifically. June 1's first to do is to start looking at that issue and try and get it better for next year.
Thanks for your specific input here so that we can make sure it's on the list.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
RE: Give it to us straight
Hi Marnie,
First of all I would like to thank you and the NetSquared team for the effort on keeping the site stable for this voting process that certainly is getting the attention of many people all over the world. I think that the problems that have happened are part of Netsquared's growing pains and maybe you didn´t expect to get all this attention so suddenly.
I´m worried about voters on developing countries, non-computer savvy, non-native english speakers. For you, me and anyone with experience with blogging or drupal, finding quickly the "Ballot" link at the "create content" menu on the right column is an easy task, but for everyone else it´s very hard to find it and vote.
We had to develop a manual in spanish for explaining how to register and vote, and we invited many people to vote and our manual worked fine for them. But now the "My Ballot" link at the top of the site is gone and the new "ballot" link at the right is very hard to find, even more when the "vote" link at the top of each project (word that in spanish is spelled also "vote") does not takes you to your ballot and "ballot" is a word not so common to learn on an english course. So you click "vote" but get a full text page in english and not the place where you cast your vote. You must find "ballot" or find the line that says "Click here to go to your ballot". Not to mention that you have to wait for an e-mail that many times is not received.
Perhaps you thought you were only going to get attention from native english speakers, perhaps you´ve wished you had more than 24 hours in a day to attend so many people at once, but I´m very worried on how this change on the voting process is going to affect the final results. This will certainly happen.
There are still problems with Hotmail accounts. Something is still happening with the "Account details at Netsquared" message that is not reaching Hotmail users, because it´s not even at the Spam folder. Have you tested this? Did you considered that many users in developing countries are full time users of Messenger and use their Hotmail account as their primary address?
What would I had done differently?
- First instead of a ballot link I´d would placed an image saying "click here to choose the projects you want to support". Big enough to be easily found and clear enough to not be mistaken. Clicking on the image gets me to the ballot.
- I wouldn´t had changed the voting link position in the middle of the voting process. Right now we are working on inviting many of our friends to vote, but also we are working as Netsquared's unofficial ambassadors: inviting people to join the Netsquared community. Joining a community should be an easy task like it used to be in the offline world.
- I would had tested the voting process with major web based e-mail providers' accounts. If the process isn´t compatible with Hotmail, which is not a little known service, then there's something that must be checked. If you invite your friends to vote but tell them that they have to use other e-mail account than their primary one, then the process gets harder even more.
- Language. I would had translated the Netsquared voting pages to other languages. According to Internet World Stats, english speakers represent 29.5% of all Internet users. If this was going to be a worldwide initiative, it would had been important to consider at least the top 5 online spoken languages and translate the voting pages (and the registration e-mail) to Chinese, Spanish, Japanese and German.
Unfortunately, time is critical, so instead of waiting for changes we have to adapt to the process and in many cases start all over again.
Regards,
Eduardo Bejar
Social Web Tools for Developing Countries: Yankana.org
The problems of internationalization
Edobejar,
Thanks for your thoughts (and for the spanish instructions, we'll see if we can get that promoted on this site to help others -- that's really terrific).
You're right: we didn't forsee the response. We planned for numbers much smaller than the ones we actually got. That's a mistake we won't be making again.
As for the difficulties for non-English speakers we just missed it. I wish I had a better answer than that. We might be able to make a couple of changes quickly (specifically, making it easier for folks to find the ballot button) and we can put this on this list for next year.
I also think that we need to and can do early community outreach to get other languages represented. You might regret doing that translation work because we very well might be turning to you for more help.
Thanks again for taking the time to so clearly articulate your concerns and thoughts.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
Non-English speakers? Are you kidding me?
Question: how are non-English speakers supposed to DECIDE on projects?
There's only one way: by voting for the one that solicited them (Yankana in the above case) and 4-9 random projects. That's it.
This isn't about discrimination. This is about practicality. I thought we were having a competition based on the expression and communication of ideas. That's something that requires a common language, unless you plan to hire translators to translate not just the voting instructions, but all ~150 PROPOSALS into a variety of languages. (And for the record, I'd find that unacceptable too - expressing a new idea well and compactly is difficult, and I would NOT trust a translator with my proposal, unless I had significant personal involvement and input.)
That's just a fact of life: at any conference, or other event that's about communication, language is a significant barrier. The fact that you are even entertaining the notion of translating instructions *without translating proposals* makes me question whether you even agree that communication and quality of ideas are the goal here.
Language and voting.
Hi Holden,
I understand your point but I don´t see why translating all the content, even the proposals, is unacceptable. For this edition of the contest perhaps because of time, but for the next one it should be an issue to promote: you should be able to post your proposal in different languages if you want. Non-mandatory. You will have to trust one of your own team to do it if you´d like to.
What wonders me is that many of the posted proposals talk about doing something "worldwide", "global" and to "benefit the world" but do not mention language anywhere. How will they benefit the entire world by using only certain language is beyond my understanding. Again, maybe it´s just a result of an unplanned attention from outside the US, or perhaps the "world" concept being considered is just idealistic.
We are located in a spanish speaking country and in a mostly spanish speaking continent (South America) so it was very appropiate to translate the voting instructions to help our spanish speaking supporters that received our proposal also in spanish. As all the other projects´ teams, our efforts for this competition are towards promoting our proposal and inviting as many as we can to support it.
According to the rules, winners will be selected by a voting process; the 20 ones that get the most votes get the proposed prize and that could mean that it will not matter if they are the best or the worst; or if their sustainability is real or not; or even if they address a real necessity or not.
I agree that it would had been better that projects compete by their ideas but with 152 proposals and just one week to review all of them I´m not sure that this is really happening.
Regards,
Eduardo Bejar
translating
Hi Eduardo,
Why translate only to spanish? I would like to have everything in Dutch, a colleague of mine in Frisian, I have german colleagues, french, vietnamese, ugandan. There were project proposals from south and north India (each with different languages), a proposal which referred to Quechua speaking people from the Andes, etcetera, etcetera. Please provide us with the means to accomodate everybody in his/her own language.
Sorry, but this was a rather cynical way of making clear the obvious.
Ciao (oops, we need italian translation also?)
Don
Global doesn't have to be multilingual
Certain things cross the language barrier very well, and certain things don't.
Money is awesome at crossing the language barrier. Without knowing a word of Spanish, I can donate to an aid program in South America, run by people who speak Spanish, with a few key bilingual people to help explain what the program is doing. GiveWell is a great example of a project that can change the whole world using nothing but English (and English speakers' money).
Technology: also good. If I create a new kind of social networking tool, I don't have to know Spanish for it to help Spanish people. They'll fill in the content. In the end, most of the people who have changed the whole world the most speak only 1 language, maybe 2.
But this is a conference - an exchange of ideas. The whole point of it is communication. That's why language is a barrier. Sure, in theory it would be better to make everything available in a billion languages. But translation is time-consuming and impossible to do perfectly; it's adding a huge headache onto what's already an ambitious project. Your suggestion would just give an advantage to projects run by people with the knowledge or resources to hire a translator. But Net2 providing translation for everyone would be a ridiculous, tangential use of its resources.
Now, you point out that this voting is going to be determined by votes, not quality of ideas, and you defend yourself for putting up instructions in Spanish. I think that's valid, and I don't blame YOU for playing by the rules and trying to win. But I really question whether Net2 has a clear idea of what they're trying to do: they ask how to make the contest better, people give them suggestions that would exaggerate the current problems you acknowledge (rather than help it to become more about quality of ideas), and they basically seem to be saying "Great idea" to everyone.
Maybe the FAQ will answer some of your concerns
Holden,
I certainly hear your concerns. This FAQ might help to answer some of them.
Right now, we are heads down this voting process (and though it can certainly be refined and made more accessible in a variety of ways, it is something that we stand behind) and so are just trying to take the ideas in, without too much judgement, and get ready for last year. While linking to the Spanish voting instructions was, as you point out, a bad idea, I think the core piece -- figuring out how to make the conversation accessible to more people -- is a good one. And there are a variety of ways to accomplish that. So our goal, in regard to these suggestions, is to take the ideas in and organize them (you'll see that soon) and then to figure out what can and should be done for the next year.
And thanks again for contributing the conversation and pointing out the problems. That helps us tremendously.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
Yeah, I thought of that after I hit submit
At first, I just thought "Oh that's a great idea" and then when I started plugging around I came to same conclusion you came to more quickly.
A head slapping moment. More broadly, it would be great for us to work on broader internatinalization so that people can read the projects in different languages and, as you pointed out, not just read the instructions.
Marnie Webb
Net2 team
RE: The problems of internationalization
Hi Marnie,
Thanks for your quick answer. I see that the "My Ballot" link is back and that's great! And also read the note that you included regarding Hotmail accounts.
Of course you can contact me for any issue that benefits the community, we´ll be glad to collaborate!. In the meantime, if it´s not too late, you can copy this instructions which explain the voting process in spanish, and to be fair, they don´t mention any particular project.
Regards,
Eduardo Bejar
Social Web Tools for Developing Countries: Yankana.org
Glad some of the changes help make things clearer
Eduardo,
Thanks again for your points. As Holden says above, we can't really translate only the instructions and not all the projects. Without a holistic translation, folks can't actually go through the projects and decide.
We can certainly look at ways to make the site more accessible but we have to be careful that we do it for all the projects.
I should have thought for a bit longer before I hit submit...
Marnie Webb
Net2 team