May 30, 11:04:44 PDT> Rolf Kleef: ok - I hope it's working again here...

May 30, 11:05:08 PDT> kk: Kang Jie over and out from China! :)

May 30, 11:05:15 PDT> Corey: Hi Everyone, my name is Corey, I'll be the moderator for this session and I'd like to welcome our speaker: Rolf Kleef of Greenpeace. Would anyone like to jump in with the first question?

May 30, 11:05:57 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: Hi Rolf and thanks for gracing this chat session

May 30, 11:06:35 PDT> Corey: Rolf, are you having some connection problems?

May 30, 11:07:00 PDT> Alex: aha! there he is.

May 30, 11:07:02 PDT> Rolf Kleef: hi everyone, I hope things work now..

May 30, 11:07:28 PDT> Rolf Kleef: I've had less problems hooking up to the internet from Africa than here at Cisco...

May 30, 11:07:48 PDT> Corey: lol - too close to the router I guess

May 30, 11:08:08 PDT> Rolf Kleef: there's a couple of people with Windows and Intel Pro wifi cards

May 30, 11:08:18 PDT> Corey: Rolf, would you like to begin by overviewing a few of your projects with Greenpeace?

May 30, 11:08:26 PDT> Rolf Kleef: and they all experience immediate crashes once you turn on your wifi...

May 30, 11:08:31 PDT> Rolf Kleef: ok

May 30, 11:08:45 PDT> Rolf Kleef: I am currently working with Greenpeace International

May 30, 11:08:55 PDT> Rolf Kleef: in the "Climate and Energy" campaign

May 30, 11:09:16 PDT> Rolf Kleef: as we're trying to take on the issue of global warming and climate change

May 30, 11:10:11 PDT> Rolf Kleef: we're trying to find new ways to get people engaged, to take on action in their own community, and that way create a big movement of people who show that we are all ready and willing to make some important changes

May 30, 11:11:07 PDT> Corey: what are some examples of how you've represented those movements of people supporting the campaign online?

May 30, 11:12:11 PDT> Rolf Kleef: you can see an early version at http://melt-demo.staging.greenpeace.org

May 30, 11:13:01 PDT> Rolf Kleef: we're trying to build on the existing ideas and experiences of the "social web",

May 30, 11:13:48 PDT> Rolf Kleef: I think an important shift is that until now, like most organisations, we work a lot with our own supporters, and work with online petitions and blogs to show the support we have

May 30, 11:14:32 PDT> Corey: how is that changing?

May 30, 11:14:46 PDT> Rolf Kleef: the idea for this platform is to find new ways to make the changes visible, and create links between online and offline

May 30, 11:15:58 PDT> Rolf Kleef: to give people new ways to take on actions, and share their own ideas and experiences

May 30, 11:16:20 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: how has the blog section at greenpeace.org helped in this objective?

May 30, 11:17:19 PDT> Rolf Kleef: the blogs are a way to make it easier to "work in public" and share our stories and experiences

May 30, 11:18:37 PDT> Rolf Kleef: an example that inspires me is the Hungarian peace sign movement, http://www.bekejel.net

May 30, 11:18:59 PDT> Corey: I was also interested in the blogs because they are posted from so many diverse sources @ greenpeace.

May 30, 11:19:27 PDT> Rolf Kleef: it combines a very strong visual icon with a very tangible, reachable, short-term call for commitment

May 30, 11:20:38 PDT> Corey: interesting, when you say "work in public" you mean offline and online

May 30, 11:20:52 PDT> Rolf Kleef: a few years ago, at the worldwide protests against the invasion of Iraq, this resulted in around 750 people gathering at the central square in Budapest, forming a peace sign with torches

May 30, 11:21:43 PDT> Rolf Kleef: it became the main image in a lot of newspapers, and a year after, the people who participated wanted to do it again, even though the organisations supporting it felt it wouldn't work

May 30, 11:23:07 PDT> Rolf Kleef: basically: it was a simple idea, and the only thing the organisations behind it in the first year had to do, was to support some people doing it

May 30, 11:23:46 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: I like the idea behind the meltdemo. It will allow people to stage their own campaign (but still be linked to greenpeace´s efforts)

May 30, 11:24:07 PDT> Rolf Kleef: yes, that is the idea

May 30, 11:24:26 PDT> Corey: similar the the peace sign effort, but online, right?

May 30, 11:24:29 PDT> Rolf Kleef: and also to get more organisations to join the platform, it won't be a "greenpeace" platform

May 30, 11:24:59 PDT> Rolf Kleef: well Corey, our main challenge is to move from online to offline

May 30, 11:27:21 PDT> Corey: have you learned any tools/techniques that work better than others to spur offline action from online involvement?

May 30, 11:28:12 PDT> Rolf Kleef: what we now want to do, is to make those networks more visible/tangible using a social web platform

May 30, 11:29:22 PDT> Corey: along with using the Google maps api, what else are you doing to make those networks more visible?

May 30, 11:30:25 PDT> Rolf Kleef: at the moment, the platform focuses on "tagging" and "linking" as the main ways to connect people, groups, events, and information

May 30, 11:31:27 PDT> Rolf Kleef: we then will try to make that information available for other sites as well

May 30, 11:31:55 PDT> Rolf Kleef: so that people can use the "networking" from the platform in their own sites

May 30, 11:31:58 PDT> Corey: do you plan on using rss to share that data?

May 30, 11:32:02 PDT> Rolf Kleef: yes

May 30, 11:32:51 PDT> Rolf Kleef: we're also exploring ideas to make eg. a tracker for political candidates,

May 30, 11:32:58 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: when will the melt site be up and running?

May 30, 11:33:18 PDT> Corey: For those of you that have joined us in the middle, you may want to check out: http://melt-demo.staging.greenpeace.org - Rolf has been using it as an example of some of his work at Greenpeace

May 30, 11:33:29 PDT> Rolf Kleef: and that way offer basic tools for individuals and groups, which then are interlinked through the platform

May 30, 11:34:03 PDT> Rolf Kleef: we are currently in the process of finishing the pilot phase website, it should be up and running by end of June

May 30, 11:34:17 PDT> Rolf Kleef: thanks Corey

May 30, 11:34:42 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: cool!

May 30, 11:35:01 PDT> Rolf Kleef: and we'd love to get in touch with people who want to help us shape this further

May 30, 11:35:52 PDT> Corey: Have there been any other sites that you have modeled the tools you are creating after or other resources that you have found particularly helpful?

May 30, 11:36:02 PDT> Rolf Kleef: so if you're interested, keep an eye on our blog (http://weblog.greenpeace.org/melt/) or drop me an email (rolf.kleef@int.greenpeace.org)

May 30, 11:36:43 PDT> Rolf Kleef: yes, we've looked at all the "usual suspects" such as MeetUp, MoveOn, the BBC Action Network, CampusActivism.org and such

May 30, 11:39:49 PDT> Rolf Kleef: and we felt we need to really make something on the basis of tagging and linking as the main structure, to build this platform

May 30, 11:41:47 PDT> Kari: a group of water advocates created watermap.org in 2004, but it was really difficult to get people to register - they just didn't want to take the time to register and download their tools

May 30, 11:41:47 PDT> Rolf Kleef: currently, that should provide ways to "connect" people and initiatives, and we then want to expand that with more ways to "organise"

May 30, 11:41:47 PDT> Kari: do you have a plan for engaging people in the site

May 30, 11:42:12 PDT> Kari: because melt looks like a self-registering site, too

May 30, 11:42:35 PDT> Corey: what do you mean by self registering, Kari?

May 30, 11:42:41 PDT> Kari: the users add the information about their events, their organizations, etc. and download their toolkits

May 30, 11:42:45 PDT> Corey: oh, as opposed to the infomation being pulled from their own sites/blogs?

May 30, 11:42:59 PDT> Kari: yes, in comparison with sites where the informaiton is entered and updated by the site owners

May 30, 11:43:26 PDT> grickle: Have you had any issues with open records requests (Public Information Act) and your bloggs?

May 30, 11:49:49 PDT> Kari: hello?

May 30, 11:49:49 PDT> Mike: "Geektivist"?

May 30, 11:49:56 PDT> Corey: Rolf? Are you still with us?

May 30, 11:49:56 PDT> Alex: Rolf is just skypingme

May 30, 11:49:57 PDT> Alex: I think he may have lost his connection

May 30, 11:49:57 PDT> Corey: Rolf has been having some connection problems

May 30, 11:49:57 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: oh

May 30, 11:49:57 PDT> Corey: thanks Alex

May 30, 11:50:00 PDT> Alex: one sec

May 30, 11:50:15 PDT> Alex: ok, we may have to cope without RK for 2 minds

May 30, 11:50:15 PDT> Alex: minutes

May 30, 11:50:20 PDT> Alex: does anyone else want to answer the question about open records requests?

May 30, 11:50:30 PDT> Corey: grickle, I'm currious why you ask

May 30, 11:50:30 PDT> Rolf Kleef: ok ... my whole explanation never appeared here, it seems

May 30, 11:50:30 PDT> Alex: ta-da! the return of Rolf

May 30, 11:50:38 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: he lost the connection again!

May 30, 11:50:40 PDT> Corey: have you had a personal experiance with a request for information?

May 30, 11:50:51 PDT> Alex: poor Rolf

May 30, 11:50:56 PDT> Alex: I'm going to play intermediary

May 30, 11:51:09 PDT> Corey: thanks Alex

May 30, 11:52:11 PDT> Rolf Kleef: so... the site is self-registering indeed, but you don't have to register to start adding content

May 30, 11:52:16 PDT> Kari: yes, but how will you encourage people to add content?

May 30, 11:52:16 PDT> Rolf Kleef: Kari, about promotion:

May 30, 11:52:42 PDT> Rolf Kleef: I think that, similar to how you had to use "old media" in the days of "Web 1.0" to promote your news portal,

May 30, 11:53:04 PDT> Rolf Kleef: we're now building on our existing social networks to promote the web version of that

May 30, 11:53:22 PDT> grickle: The higher ups at the nonprofit I work for feel we would not have enough control with a blog or any other community technology. We have had open records requests for emails about such and such and they would hate to have to submit blogs.

May 30, 11:54:18 PDT> clickty: Rolf when you say "we are currently in the process of finishing the pilot phase website" - who is the 'we' ? Has GPI developed 'Melt' in house or have you utilized consulting service/direction from within the Net2 community?

May 30, 11:54:23 PDT> Rolf Kleef: at the moment, it is a pretty much "self-contained" platform, but that will change in a next version

May 30, 11:54:26 PDT> Kari: I understand that, but I am more interested in the prosaic details: do you have a dedicated staff person to encourage participation? who confirms/ reviews the information for accuracy (at all) or verifies links.

May 30, 11:55:42 PDT> Kari: i have been involved with several tool-building projects that seem to lack staff or capacity for implementation, so I am genuinely intersted in learning about models that will guarantee that these tools will be used

May 30, 11:55:46 PDT> Corey: in many cases, can't you rely on the community to police the information for accuracy, like a wiki?

May 30, 11:56:27 PDT> Kari: can users edit each others' information on melt?

May 30, 11:56:35 PDT> Alex: except accuracy doesn't really seem to be the strength of community editing

May 30, 11:56:36 PDT> Alex: more like consensus than accuracy

May 30, 11:57:02 PDT> Kari: again, most of the people who use or need this kind of tool just don't have the time or capacity to edit

May 30, 11:57:08 PDT> Kari: in my experience

May 30, 11:57:41 PDT> Rolf Kleef: Kari, we do have staff to encourage participation, in the broader sense of building our own volunteer networks, and online communities

May 30, 11:58:07 PDT> Kari: it would be great if some of your campaign partners could help recruit participants

May 30, 11:58:07 PDT> Kari: too

May 30, 11:58:07 PDT> Corey: looks like we have about 5 minutes left before the end of this session, would anyone else like to ask a question or comment?

May 30, 11:58:20 PDT> Kari: ok, thanks

May 30, 11:58:30 PDT> Rolf Kleef: yes, it's an integral part of our campaign to get people involved, with our campaigners

May 30, 11:58:33 PDT> Kari: i look forward to checking it out

May 30, 12:00:46 PDT> MikeCornfield: test

May 30, 12:00:46 PDT> Rolf Kleef: great! we're interested to learn from your experiences

May 30, 12:00:57 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: i will be sure to check it out too!

May 30, 12:01:05 PDT> Kari: and promoting it (if appropriate) after all, independent media is a pretty active partner in global warming education

May 30, 12:01:41 PDT> Corey: Rolf, thank you for participating today, I think we'll clear the stage now for Mike and his discussion

May 30, 12:01:41 PDT> Kari: thanks for your time1

May 30, 12:01:56 PDT> Rolf Kleef: Thanks everyone for your attention!

May 30, 12:01:56 PDT> Alex: Thanks to both Rolf & Corey for a great session

May 30, 12:01:56 PDT> gabber343: Rolf, just wanted to say hi from an NRDC web guy, and that Greenpeace has been one of the places I've looked as I consider how to roll out social media stuff here. You all are doing great work.

May 30, 12:01:56 PDT> Alex: the transcript will be online a little later