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Remote conference session with Mike Linksvayer
May 31, 10:58:50 PDT> *Corey*: Hi do we have Mike with us already for
the next session?
May 31, 10:59:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Hi, yes
May 31, 10:59:21 PDT> *Corey*: Hi Mike, I'll be helping as the moderator
for your session
May 31, 10:59:43 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: FWIW my slides from yesterday's
EFF/CC panel are online at http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/netsquared
May 31, 11:00:20 PDT> *Corey*: Great
May 31, 11:00:54 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: i'd be happy to discuss any
aspect of creative commons and related legal and technology questions
(though i am most definitely not a lawyer and CC cannot give legal
advice in any case) and how nonprofits might use these
May 31, 11:00:54 PDT> *Corey*: Hi Everyone, my name is Corey, I'll be
the moderator for this session and I'd like to welcome our speaker: Mike
Linksvayer, CTO, Creative Commons. Would anyone like to jump in with the
first question?
May 31, 11:01:12 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Hi Corey
May 31, 11:02:31 PDT> *Alex*: Mike, I have a question for you:
May 31, 11:02:46 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: How many people have applied a
CC license to their or their nonprofit's work?
May 31, 11:02:46 PDT> *Alex*: how can someone who "gets" creative
commons convince his/her Exec Director that an organization should be
Creative Commons licensing its web content?
May 31, 11:02:52 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: If so, any feedback?
May 31, 11:02:59 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: HI Mike and Corey, I work with
PLoS - which published all of our reseach under the CCAL. We are looking
for ways to inspire creative reuse of our materials. Do you have any
suggestions on how technology could be used to do so?
May 31, 11:03:25 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Wow two great questions...
May 31, 11:05:01 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Alex, I guess there are several
angles one could take. If the org as any affinity for
democratic/participatory values, using CC says to their community that
they really "get it" and are walking the talk
May 31, 11:06:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: If your ED wants to reach more
people (who doesn't?) using a CC license can be seen as an encouragement
to spread the message
May 31, 11:06:32 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: BTW: we love the ccMixter.
May 31, 11:06:41 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: The ED can choose which
restrictions they want in place. Conservatively you might want to just
spread verbatim content using a noderivatives license
May 31, 11:07:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Or use a license that allows
derivatives and encourage your constituency to remix your message
May 31, 11:07:49 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: in either case using a CC
license is basically showing respect to your constituency, bucause "all
rights reserved" makes lots of the things you want them to do
technically illegal, even though you want them to do it
May 31, 11:07:59 PDT> *Alex*: But it's not always easy to explain the CC
concept to folks who don't get the commons culture of the net
May 31, 11:08:14 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*:
http://mirrors.creativecommons.orrg/getcreative is generally the best intro
May 31, 11:08:19 PDT> *gabber474*: if there is a license, you can
reproduce the material- even if it says all rights reserved?
May 31, 11:08:22 PDT> *Alex*: great! thanks.
May 31, 11:09:08 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: yes, i agree with Alex. People
outside the "techie" realm don't seem to get CC licenses when I try to
explain it to them...any simple language you use to explain it?
May 31, 11:09:11 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: gabber474, not sure what you
mean. if something is "all rights reserved" you can't reproduce it,
modulo fair use
May 31, 11:09:25 PDT> *Corey*: Mike, can you think of a couple examples
of nonprofits that have sucessfully published their content with a cc
license?
May 31, 11:10:04 PDT> *Alex*: Everything on both NetSquared.org and
telecentre.org is CC
May 31, 11:10:10 PDT> *Emily*: how do you know what things you can
reproduce?
May 31, 11:10:20 PDT> *Emily*: with a reference to the source
May 31, 11:10:22 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: DanielleMartin, well the 5 min
movie i linked to attempts to do that. For people with time and interest
to read I suggest giving them a copy of "Free Culture" by Lawrence
Lessig, which covers a lot more than CC, but is a great intro to the
whole set
May 31, 11:10:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: of issues
May 31, 11:11:14 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Going back to CatSilvestre's
question about encouraging creative reuse (btw PLoS is fantastic! :)
May 31, 11:11:15 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: ...
May 31, 11:11:41 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: Thanks! (www.plos.org)
May 31, 11:12:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Using a liberal CC license is
the first step, which PLoS does. Next would be some messaging
encouraging people to make creative reuse....
May 31, 11:12:57 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: To really push it, because
showing off reuse is really important to demonstrate the power of
cc/free culture we've built sort of a CMS platform explicitly for
encouraging and tracking remixes
May 31, 11:13:05 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*:
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcHost
May 31, 11:13:13 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: http://ccmixter.org is an instance
May 31, 11:13:39 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: that may not be the right
software for some needs, but I encourage others to take the ideas and
implement them elsewhere
May 31, 11:13:47 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: are we talking media pieces here
or could this apply to other publications (curriculums, papers, books)?
May 31, 11:14:05 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: we've also run remix contests
successfully which cause people to focus on remix
May 31, 11:14:52 PDT> *Emily*: what do you mean by remix?
May 31, 11:14:54 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: BTW if you have licensed
content (eg PLoS) and notice a cool remix please ping me
ml@creativecommons.org -- I love pointing out cool reuse on the CC blog
May 31, 11:15:06 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: We've been trying that. That's why
I love the ccMixter and your various contests. But how do you enourage
relatively static research come alive? We are working on a new journal
to help facilitate collaboration and make papers "living"
May 31, 11:16:05 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Emily, by remix I really just
mean reuse, which can take any number of forms, from synching music to
video, photoshopping, mashups, translations...
May 31, 11:16:50 PDT> *Corey*: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/
May 31, 11:17:01 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: are people licensing websites or
blog content at all?
May 31, 11:17:18 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Going back to Corey's question
about nonprofit use of CC licenses...
May 31, 11:18:24 PDT> *Alex*: Mike, do you have any interesting e.g.s of
nonprofit remix projects?
May 31, 11:18:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Well, PLoS is a stellar
example, as is MIT's OpenCourseWare and Rice Connexions, but those are
probably much bigger nonprofits than the average Netsquared attendee is
coming from. :) I probably don't know about all the amazing stuff being
licensed.
May 31, 11:18:39 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Strike probably, I don't. :)
May 31, 11:18:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I believe OpenDemocracy is
using CC licenses for their content
May 31, 11:19:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: For example.
May 31, 11:19:20 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: In the political realm
bushin30seconds did
May 31, 11:19:55 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: flickr allows people to choose a
cc liscence for their photos. i think that is a very cool collaboration.
May 31, 11:19:59 PDT> *Alex*: I had a good chat at SXSW with Eric Steuer
of CC re: licensing vs netiquette
May 31, 11:20:19 PDT> *Alex*: My concern is that rampant reblogging is a
disincentive for folks to CC their work
May 31, 11:20:33 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: And I've noticed CC licenses on
the sites of a bunch of people I met at Netsquared yesterday, which is
awesome, eg Ethan Zuckerman's blog, which uses our most liberal license,
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ -- you just have to give him c
May 31, 11:20:35 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: redit
May 31, 11:20:44 PDT> *Corey*: is there a type of license that (in
general) is the most common for organizations to use?
May 31, 11:20:50 PDT> *Alex*: b/c it really sucks if you've worked your
ass off on a great piece of content, only to find it reproduced in its
entirety on someone else's site, which then gets all the traffic
May 31, 11:21:19 PDT> *Emily*: I agree with Alex
May 31, 11:21:25 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: me too!
May 31, 11:21:48 PDT> *frauholly*: testing...
May 31, 11:22:17 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Using CC media for stock components
is a big benefit for nonprofits. What strategies and tools can help
track all those artworks over time, to prevent any legal concerns?
May 31, 11:22:20 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: the way we see it, and we use the
most liberal cc liscence, is that dissemination is most important. why
not allow your work to reach the max number of people? under ccal,
attribution of author and source is absolutely required.
May 31, 11:22:49 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Emily, you asked how you can
know which things you can reproduce -- generally look for a "some rights
reserved" license button or other link to a CC license. Click through
and you'll get a high level description of the permissions you're given
May 31, 11:23:12 PDT> *Emily*: I've looked at the descriptions but it
confused me
May 31, 11:24:03 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CatSilvestre, how you make
static content come alive, that sounds like a $64k question to me :) or
more than $64k, why do peopke use that amount anyway? :)
May 31, 11:24:04 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: I'm not sure non-techie people
trust this type of licensing
May 31, 11:24:44 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: although, those are the same
types that don't trust what they read on blogs either ;)
May 31, 11:24:46 PDT> *Corey*: I like the wizard on the cc site that
helps you choose which license to use based on your needs
May 31, 11:24:50 PDT> *Corey*: http://creativecommons.org/license/
May 31, 11:25:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Oh, an obvious way to make
papers "living" is to have a wiki (or similar) version or other
commenting technology.
May 31, 11:25:33 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Also make it easy/encourage
bloggers to link to papers
May 31, 11:25:44 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Maybe trackback/pingback for
every paper?
May 31, 11:27:25 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Alex, regarding nonprofit remix
contests, firefox flicks is probably the best example I can think of off
the top of my head
May 31, 11:27:40 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CC is going to launcing a remix
contest with another tech nonprofit soon, watch for that
May 31, 11:27:46 PDT> *Corey*: there's not a central location to track
revisions and changes to content or property right now, is there?
May 31, 11:28:09 PDT> *Alex*: will do! be sure to let us know on net2
May 31, 11:28:10 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: So is Creative Commons trying to
advocate to non-profit org's in anyway?
May 31, 11:29:31 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Alex, Eric Steuer is sitting
across the room from me. :) If you primarily want to spread your message
you should probably see reblogging as a good thing. But it is going to
happen regardless of license it seems.
May 31, 11:29:48 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: I've see a lot of CC materials
around the colleges I work with, but not so much with np
org's...especially the ones that work with youth
May 31, 11:30:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Corey regarding most common
licneses, check out http://wiki.creativecommons.org/License_statistics
May 31, 11:31:14 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Though not a remix contest
perse, the 100second Film Festival (http://100second.ltc.org/) is
composed entirely of Creatively Commoned entries, and through the
DigitalBicycle all entries can be downloaded and recurated into new,
local screenings
May 31, 11:31:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: SKarjuneMN, great question re
tracking use of components to avoid legal issues
May 31, 11:31:34 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: i don't think there is a great
answer right now
May 31, 11:31:51 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: I keep good records...
May 31, 11:32:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: long term the solution is
probably for CMSes and the like to retain more metadata about individual
components, including licensing
May 31, 11:32:25 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: We (the DigitalBicycle) created
a CreativeCommons module for Drupal for this purpose
(http://drupal.org/node/17497/)
May 31, 11:32:31 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Is RDF being used at all for this?
May 31, 11:33:19 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Cool, a Drupal module is a big plus!
May 31, 11:33:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: There's also an
industry/software called "digial asset management" which is similar but
targeted at ad shops and media consultants that need to manage a
bazillion pieces of content. i'd like to encourage people to think about
open source DAM
May 31, 11:33:43 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Most DAM is damn expensive...
May 31, 11:33:47 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Mike, I agree that tracking
this within a CMS's metadata is a good long term solution. Of course,
figuring out what metadata schemas to use has been the big question for
a number of us.
May 31, 11:34:20 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: S-MN, exactly
May 31, 11:34:31 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: "Solve it in the metadata" is
the web 2.0 version of "fix it in the mix"
May 31, 11:35:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: corey, going back to your
question about a central place to track property, the answer is no
May 31, 11:35:30 PDT> *Kaliya*: Dabble.com
May 31, 11:35:56 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CC doesn't have the resources,
we wouldn't (have) gotten it right first try, we'd have legal issues
May 31, 11:36:17 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: we want decentralization and
lots of experimentation
May 31, 11:37:17 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: part of it is metadata
everywhere, which have enabled Y! and G's CC search, see
http://creativecommons.org/find
May 31, 11:37:17 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: part is aggregation sites, see
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Curators for an incomplete list
May 31, 11:37:34 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: there are many sites and
businesses yet to evolve around this
May 31, 11:37:43 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: e.g. warranting that licensed
content is fully cleared
May 31, 11:37:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: and popping the great stuff up
to the top, eg. collaborative filtering
May 31, 11:39:37 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I've never heard of "fix it in
the mix", Daniel, but I'll assume it is not good
May 31, 11:40:40 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: actually the move has been
towards metadata that is colocated with data intended for humans, which
strongly reduces the "metacrap" problem
May 31, 11:41:03 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: "fix it in the mix" = take care
of something in post-production.
May 31, 11:41:22 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: re: metadata colocated with
data for humans... great idea!
May 31, 11:41:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Danielle Martin re CC material
for nonprofits, especially youth, we're going to be working on that
more, especially after net2 :)
May 31, 11:41:55 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: We actually have a bunch of
education projects under way that you should see bear fruit later this year
May 31, 11:42:21 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: and people working with the
$100 laptop people and others on content for children
May 31, 11:42:56 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: ? about the Non-Commercial
aspect of the license.
May 31, 11:43:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Yeah, the 100 second film
festival is cool. Another one is the slomo video festival
May 31, 11:43:42 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: if someone licenses the
documentary (or other video/film) under a CC non-commercial
May 31, 11:43:42 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Ok, I think I'm almost caught up :)
May 31, 11:43:42 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: NC is probably the most
frequently asked question :)
May 31, 11:44:38 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: While Daniel types the rest of
his question, I'll refer to our draft Noncommercial guidelines, check
out http://wiki.creativecommons.org/NonCommercial_Guidelines
May 31, 11:44:41 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: and it was shown on Public
Access, that's clearly NonCommercial, in the same way NBC would be
clearly Commercial. But what about PBS?
May 31, 11:45:07 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: I ask because I've been stumped
by that question when trying to convince filmmakers to license under CC
and distribute online
May 31, 11:46:29 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I've heard that (PBS) question
raised before but I don't remember the answer (if there was one). PBS of
yore presumably would've been NC use, but now they basically have lots
of advertising....
May 31, 11:46:53 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: /me waves to all those crazy Net2
folks from Toronto
May 31, 11:46:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Feel free to send me an email
ml@creativecommons.org and I'll get you as good of an answer as I can
May 31, 11:47:21 PDT> *Alex*: hi Phillip!!
May 31, 11:48:11 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: Mike, on the topic of leveraging
technology - do you have an archive of best practices?
May 31, 11:48:11 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: is that Alex Samuels?
May 31, 11:48:11 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: ;-)
May 31, 11:48:23 PDT> *Alex*: indeed
May 31, 11:49:05 PDT> *Alex*: Phillip, we had a chat here earlier about
cool np egs of cc licensing -- any examples to share?
May 31, 11:49:10 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: /me is just discussing the idea
of a live conference chat with some colleagues ... what do you think?
How is it going?
May 31, 11:49:13 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: The CC Drupal module is great,
thanks for that.
May 31, 11:49:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: It is RDF, but you can mostly
ignore that
May 31, 11:49:37 PDT> *Alex*: Phillip, that's a good topic for the
hallway -- or I'll look for you in /me
May 31, 11:50:01 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: the basic metadata that
captures "this page is license" is both a microformat
May 31, 11:50:42 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: okay -- cool, will do! :-)
May 31, 11:50:42 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*:
http://microformats.org/wiki/rellicense and a RDFa (new RDF encoding
colocated with HTML) serialization of
May 31, 11:51:13 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: <current url> <licensed>
<license url> .
May 31, 11:51:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: if you care about rdf triples ...
May 31, 11:51:21 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: see http://rdfa.info
May 31, 11:52:25 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CatSilvestre, regarding an
archive of best practices, not per se, though we do have a wiki
http://wiki.creativecommons.org
May 31, 11:52:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I suppose we should use a "Best
Practices" category to mark the relevant articles
May 31, 11:53:56 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: I thought that I had fully
explored your site, but you keep presenting new and terrific resources.
Thanks! A best practices dialogue would be extremely useful.
May 31, 11:54:00 PDT> *Corey*: I just want to give everyone a heads up
that we have about 5 minutes before the next session.
May 31, 11:54:45 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CatSilvestre, thanks, I tend to
only see the deficiencies :)
May 31, 11:55:36 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: re: the Drupal module -- I'll
pass the encouragement on to Peter Bull, the developer, but it's all
thanks to your API, so good job there.
May 31, 11:56:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: If nobody has other questions,
I'd encourage you all to show your compatriots our intro short
http://mirrors.creativeconmons.org/getcreative and utilize the licenses
where you can for your work
May 31, 11:56:53 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Thanks Mike...very informative,
important work, and we in the provinces appreciate the remote experience!
May 31, 11:57:20 PDT> *Corey*: Also feel free to post any other ideas
from this session to: http://www.netsquared.org/next-actions
May 31, 11:57:56 PDT> *teck*:
http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/getcreative --- a tiny typo in the link
May 31, 11:58:03 PDT> *Corey*: Thanks Mike!
May 31, 11:58:22 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: And also take time to explore
the CC licensed content that is out there. I think you'll be surprised
how much great stuff there is, most with zero promotional budget
May 31, 11:58:39 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: you help as tastemakers as well
as creators ...
May 31, 11:59:07 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: check out http://magnatune.com
and http://jamendo.com for music, etc ... much more at
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Curators
May 31, 11:59:14 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: thanks for the url correction!
May 31, 11:59:27 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Thanks everyone!
May 31, 11:59:47 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: Thank you! Can't wait to see more
from CC.
May 31, 11:59:48 PDT> *Alex*: Thanks for doing this, Mike
the next session?
May 31, 10:59:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Hi, yes
May 31, 10:59:21 PDT> *Corey*: Hi Mike, I'll be helping as the moderator
for your session
May 31, 10:59:43 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: FWIW my slides from yesterday's
EFF/CC panel are online at http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/netsquared
May 31, 11:00:20 PDT> *Corey*: Great
May 31, 11:00:54 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: i'd be happy to discuss any
aspect of creative commons and related legal and technology questions
(though i am most definitely not a lawyer and CC cannot give legal
advice in any case) and how nonprofits might use these
May 31, 11:00:54 PDT> *Corey*: Hi Everyone, my name is Corey, I'll be
the moderator for this session and I'd like to welcome our speaker: Mike
Linksvayer, CTO, Creative Commons. Would anyone like to jump in with the
first question?
May 31, 11:01:12 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Hi Corey
May 31, 11:02:31 PDT> *Alex*: Mike, I have a question for you:
May 31, 11:02:46 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: How many people have applied a
CC license to their or their nonprofit's work?
May 31, 11:02:46 PDT> *Alex*: how can someone who "gets" creative
commons convince his/her Exec Director that an organization should be
Creative Commons licensing its web content?
May 31, 11:02:52 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: If so, any feedback?
May 31, 11:02:59 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: HI Mike and Corey, I work with
PLoS - which published all of our reseach under the CCAL. We are looking
for ways to inspire creative reuse of our materials. Do you have any
suggestions on how technology could be used to do so?
May 31, 11:03:25 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Wow two great questions...
May 31, 11:05:01 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Alex, I guess there are several
angles one could take. If the org as any affinity for
democratic/participatory values, using CC says to their community that
they really "get it" and are walking the talk
May 31, 11:06:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: If your ED wants to reach more
people (who doesn't?) using a CC license can be seen as an encouragement
to spread the message
May 31, 11:06:32 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: BTW: we love the ccMixter.
May 31, 11:06:41 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: The ED can choose which
restrictions they want in place. Conservatively you might want to just
spread verbatim content using a noderivatives license
May 31, 11:07:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Or use a license that allows
derivatives and encourage your constituency to remix your message
May 31, 11:07:49 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: in either case using a CC
license is basically showing respect to your constituency, bucause "all
rights reserved" makes lots of the things you want them to do
technically illegal, even though you want them to do it
May 31, 11:07:59 PDT> *Alex*: But it's not always easy to explain the CC
concept to folks who don't get the commons culture of the net
May 31, 11:08:14 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*:
http://mirrors.creativecommons.orrg/getcreative is generally the best intro
May 31, 11:08:19 PDT> *gabber474*: if there is a license, you can
reproduce the material- even if it says all rights reserved?
May 31, 11:08:22 PDT> *Alex*: great! thanks.
May 31, 11:09:08 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: yes, i agree with Alex. People
outside the "techie" realm don't seem to get CC licenses when I try to
explain it to them...any simple language you use to explain it?
May 31, 11:09:11 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: gabber474, not sure what you
mean. if something is "all rights reserved" you can't reproduce it,
modulo fair use
May 31, 11:09:25 PDT> *Corey*: Mike, can you think of a couple examples
of nonprofits that have sucessfully published their content with a cc
license?
May 31, 11:10:04 PDT> *Alex*: Everything on both NetSquared.org and
telecentre.org is CC
May 31, 11:10:10 PDT> *Emily*: how do you know what things you can
reproduce?
May 31, 11:10:20 PDT> *Emily*: with a reference to the source
May 31, 11:10:22 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: DanielleMartin, well the 5 min
movie i linked to attempts to do that. For people with time and interest
to read I suggest giving them a copy of "Free Culture" by Lawrence
Lessig, which covers a lot more than CC, but is a great intro to the
whole set
May 31, 11:10:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: of issues
May 31, 11:11:14 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Going back to CatSilvestre's
question about encouraging creative reuse (btw PLoS is fantastic! :)
May 31, 11:11:15 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: ...
May 31, 11:11:41 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: Thanks! (www.plos.org)
May 31, 11:12:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Using a liberal CC license is
the first step, which PLoS does. Next would be some messaging
encouraging people to make creative reuse....
May 31, 11:12:57 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: To really push it, because
showing off reuse is really important to demonstrate the power of
cc/free culture we've built sort of a CMS platform explicitly for
encouraging and tracking remixes
May 31, 11:13:05 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*:
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcHost
May 31, 11:13:13 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: http://ccmixter.org is an instance
May 31, 11:13:39 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: that may not be the right
software for some needs, but I encourage others to take the ideas and
implement them elsewhere
May 31, 11:13:47 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: are we talking media pieces here
or could this apply to other publications (curriculums, papers, books)?
May 31, 11:14:05 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: we've also run remix contests
successfully which cause people to focus on remix
May 31, 11:14:52 PDT> *Emily*: what do you mean by remix?
May 31, 11:14:54 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: BTW if you have licensed
content (eg PLoS) and notice a cool remix please ping me
ml@creativecommons.org -- I love pointing out cool reuse on the CC blog
May 31, 11:15:06 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: We've been trying that. That's why
I love the ccMixter and your various contests. But how do you enourage
relatively static research come alive? We are working on a new journal
to help facilitate collaboration and make papers "living"
May 31, 11:16:05 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Emily, by remix I really just
mean reuse, which can take any number of forms, from synching music to
video, photoshopping, mashups, translations...
May 31, 11:16:50 PDT> *Corey*: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/
May 31, 11:17:01 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: are people licensing websites or
blog content at all?
May 31, 11:17:18 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Going back to Corey's question
about nonprofit use of CC licenses...
May 31, 11:18:24 PDT> *Alex*: Mike, do you have any interesting e.g.s of
nonprofit remix projects?
May 31, 11:18:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Well, PLoS is a stellar
example, as is MIT's OpenCourseWare and Rice Connexions, but those are
probably much bigger nonprofits than the average Netsquared attendee is
coming from. :) I probably don't know about all the amazing stuff being
licensed.
May 31, 11:18:39 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Strike probably, I don't. :)
May 31, 11:18:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I believe OpenDemocracy is
using CC licenses for their content
May 31, 11:19:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: For example.
May 31, 11:19:20 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: In the political realm
bushin30seconds did
May 31, 11:19:55 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: flickr allows people to choose a
cc liscence for their photos. i think that is a very cool collaboration.
May 31, 11:19:59 PDT> *Alex*: I had a good chat at SXSW with Eric Steuer
of CC re: licensing vs netiquette
May 31, 11:20:19 PDT> *Alex*: My concern is that rampant reblogging is a
disincentive for folks to CC their work
May 31, 11:20:33 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: And I've noticed CC licenses on
the sites of a bunch of people I met at Netsquared yesterday, which is
awesome, eg Ethan Zuckerman's blog, which uses our most liberal license,
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ -- you just have to give him c
May 31, 11:20:35 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: redit
May 31, 11:20:44 PDT> *Corey*: is there a type of license that (in
general) is the most common for organizations to use?
May 31, 11:20:50 PDT> *Alex*: b/c it really sucks if you've worked your
ass off on a great piece of content, only to find it reproduced in its
entirety on someone else's site, which then gets all the traffic
May 31, 11:21:19 PDT> *Emily*: I agree with Alex
May 31, 11:21:25 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: me too!
May 31, 11:21:48 PDT> *frauholly*: testing...
May 31, 11:22:17 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Using CC media for stock components
is a big benefit for nonprofits. What strategies and tools can help
track all those artworks over time, to prevent any legal concerns?
May 31, 11:22:20 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: the way we see it, and we use the
most liberal cc liscence, is that dissemination is most important. why
not allow your work to reach the max number of people? under ccal,
attribution of author and source is absolutely required.
May 31, 11:22:49 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Emily, you asked how you can
know which things you can reproduce -- generally look for a "some rights
reserved" license button or other link to a CC license. Click through
and you'll get a high level description of the permissions you're given
May 31, 11:23:12 PDT> *Emily*: I've looked at the descriptions but it
confused me
May 31, 11:24:03 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CatSilvestre, how you make
static content come alive, that sounds like a $64k question to me :) or
more than $64k, why do peopke use that amount anyway? :)
May 31, 11:24:04 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: I'm not sure non-techie people
trust this type of licensing
May 31, 11:24:44 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: although, those are the same
types that don't trust what they read on blogs either ;)
May 31, 11:24:46 PDT> *Corey*: I like the wizard on the cc site that
helps you choose which license to use based on your needs
May 31, 11:24:50 PDT> *Corey*: http://creativecommons.org/license/
May 31, 11:25:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Oh, an obvious way to make
papers "living" is to have a wiki (or similar) version or other
commenting technology.
May 31, 11:25:33 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Also make it easy/encourage
bloggers to link to papers
May 31, 11:25:44 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Maybe trackback/pingback for
every paper?
May 31, 11:27:25 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Alex, regarding nonprofit remix
contests, firefox flicks is probably the best example I can think of off
the top of my head
May 31, 11:27:40 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CC is going to launcing a remix
contest with another tech nonprofit soon, watch for that
May 31, 11:27:46 PDT> *Corey*: there's not a central location to track
revisions and changes to content or property right now, is there?
May 31, 11:28:09 PDT> *Alex*: will do! be sure to let us know on net2
May 31, 11:28:10 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: So is Creative Commons trying to
advocate to non-profit org's in anyway?
May 31, 11:29:31 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Alex, Eric Steuer is sitting
across the room from me. :) If you primarily want to spread your message
you should probably see reblogging as a good thing. But it is going to
happen regardless of license it seems.
May 31, 11:29:48 PDT> *DanielleMartin*: I've see a lot of CC materials
around the colleges I work with, but not so much with np
org's...especially the ones that work with youth
May 31, 11:30:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Corey regarding most common
licneses, check out http://wiki.creativecommons.org/License_statistics
May 31, 11:31:14 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Though not a remix contest
perse, the 100second Film Festival (http://100second.ltc.org/) is
composed entirely of Creatively Commoned entries, and through the
DigitalBicycle all entries can be downloaded and recurated into new,
local screenings
May 31, 11:31:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: SKarjuneMN, great question re
tracking use of components to avoid legal issues
May 31, 11:31:34 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: i don't think there is a great
answer right now
May 31, 11:31:51 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: I keep good records...
May 31, 11:32:00 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: long term the solution is
probably for CMSes and the like to retain more metadata about individual
components, including licensing
May 31, 11:32:25 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: We (the DigitalBicycle) created
a CreativeCommons module for Drupal for this purpose
(http://drupal.org/node/17497/)
May 31, 11:32:31 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Is RDF being used at all for this?
May 31, 11:33:19 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Cool, a Drupal module is a big plus!
May 31, 11:33:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: There's also an
industry/software called "digial asset management" which is similar but
targeted at ad shops and media consultants that need to manage a
bazillion pieces of content. i'd like to encourage people to think about
open source DAM
May 31, 11:33:43 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Most DAM is damn expensive...
May 31, 11:33:47 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Mike, I agree that tracking
this within a CMS's metadata is a good long term solution. Of course,
figuring out what metadata schemas to use has been the big question for
a number of us.
May 31, 11:34:20 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: S-MN, exactly
May 31, 11:34:31 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: "Solve it in the metadata" is
the web 2.0 version of "fix it in the mix"
May 31, 11:35:23 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: corey, going back to your
question about a central place to track property, the answer is no
May 31, 11:35:30 PDT> *Kaliya*: Dabble.com
May 31, 11:35:56 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CC doesn't have the resources,
we wouldn't (have) gotten it right first try, we'd have legal issues
May 31, 11:36:17 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: we want decentralization and
lots of experimentation
May 31, 11:37:17 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: part of it is metadata
everywhere, which have enabled Y! and G's CC search, see
http://creativecommons.org/find
May 31, 11:37:17 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: part is aggregation sites, see
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Curators for an incomplete list
May 31, 11:37:34 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: there are many sites and
businesses yet to evolve around this
May 31, 11:37:43 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: e.g. warranting that licensed
content is fully cleared
May 31, 11:37:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: and popping the great stuff up
to the top, eg. collaborative filtering
May 31, 11:39:37 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I've never heard of "fix it in
the mix", Daniel, but I'll assume it is not good
May 31, 11:40:40 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: actually the move has been
towards metadata that is colocated with data intended for humans, which
strongly reduces the "metacrap" problem
May 31, 11:41:03 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: "fix it in the mix" = take care
of something in post-production.
May 31, 11:41:22 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: re: metadata colocated with
data for humans... great idea!
May 31, 11:41:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Danielle Martin re CC material
for nonprofits, especially youth, we're going to be working on that
more, especially after net2 :)
May 31, 11:41:55 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: We actually have a bunch of
education projects under way that you should see bear fruit later this year
May 31, 11:42:21 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: and people working with the
$100 laptop people and others on content for children
May 31, 11:42:56 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: ? about the Non-Commercial
aspect of the license.
May 31, 11:43:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Yeah, the 100 second film
festival is cool. Another one is the slomo video festival
May 31, 11:43:42 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: if someone licenses the
documentary (or other video/film) under a CC non-commercial
May 31, 11:43:42 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Ok, I think I'm almost caught up :)
May 31, 11:43:42 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: NC is probably the most
frequently asked question :)
May 31, 11:44:38 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: While Daniel types the rest of
his question, I'll refer to our draft Noncommercial guidelines, check
out http://wiki.creativecommons.org/NonCommercial_Guidelines
May 31, 11:44:41 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: and it was shown on Public
Access, that's clearly NonCommercial, in the same way NBC would be
clearly Commercial. But what about PBS?
May 31, 11:45:07 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: I ask because I've been stumped
by that question when trying to convince filmmakers to license under CC
and distribute online
May 31, 11:46:29 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I've heard that (PBS) question
raised before but I don't remember the answer (if there was one). PBS of
yore presumably would've been NC use, but now they basically have lots
of advertising....
May 31, 11:46:53 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: /me waves to all those crazy Net2
folks from Toronto
May 31, 11:46:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Feel free to send me an email
ml@creativecommons.org and I'll get you as good of an answer as I can
May 31, 11:47:21 PDT> *Alex*: hi Phillip!!
May 31, 11:48:11 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: Mike, on the topic of leveraging
technology - do you have an archive of best practices?
May 31, 11:48:11 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: is that Alex Samuels?
May 31, 11:48:11 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: ;-)
May 31, 11:48:23 PDT> *Alex*: indeed
May 31, 11:49:05 PDT> *Alex*: Phillip, we had a chat here earlier about
cool np egs of cc licensing -- any examples to share?
May 31, 11:49:10 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: /me is just discussing the idea
of a live conference chat with some colleagues ... what do you think?
How is it going?
May 31, 11:49:13 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: The CC Drupal module is great,
thanks for that.
May 31, 11:49:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: It is RDF, but you can mostly
ignore that
May 31, 11:49:37 PDT> *Alex*: Phillip, that's a good topic for the
hallway -- or I'll look for you in /me
May 31, 11:50:01 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: the basic metadata that
captures "this page is license" is both a microformat
May 31, 11:50:42 PDT> *Phillip Smith*: okay -- cool, will do! :-)
May 31, 11:50:42 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*:
http://microformats.org/wiki/rellicense and a RDFa (new RDF encoding
colocated with HTML) serialization of
May 31, 11:51:13 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: <current url> <licensed>
<license url> .
May 31, 11:51:16 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: if you care about rdf triples ...
May 31, 11:51:21 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: see http://rdfa.info
May 31, 11:52:25 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CatSilvestre, regarding an
archive of best practices, not per se, though we do have a wiki
http://wiki.creativecommons.org
May 31, 11:52:53 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: I suppose we should use a "Best
Practices" category to mark the relevant articles
May 31, 11:53:56 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: I thought that I had fully
explored your site, but you keep presenting new and terrific resources.
Thanks! A best practices dialogue would be extremely useful.
May 31, 11:54:00 PDT> *Corey*: I just want to give everyone a heads up
that we have about 5 minutes before the next session.
May 31, 11:54:45 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: CatSilvestre, thanks, I tend to
only see the deficiencies :)
May 31, 11:55:36 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: re: the Drupal module -- I'll
pass the encouragement on to Peter Bull, the developer, but it's all
thanks to your API, so good job there.
May 31, 11:56:26 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: If nobody has other questions,
I'd encourage you all to show your compatriots our intro short
http://mirrors.creativeconmons.org/getcreative and utilize the licenses
where you can for your work
May 31, 11:56:53 PDT> *SkarjuneMN*: Thanks Mike...very informative,
important work, and we in the provinces appreciate the remote experience!
May 31, 11:57:20 PDT> *Corey*: Also feel free to post any other ideas
from this session to: http://www.netsquared.org/next-actions
May 31, 11:57:56 PDT> *teck*:
http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/getcreative --- a tiny typo in the link
May 31, 11:58:03 PDT> *Corey*: Thanks Mike!
May 31, 11:58:22 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: And also take time to explore
the CC licensed content that is out there. I think you'll be surprised
how much great stuff there is, most with zero promotional budget
May 31, 11:58:39 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: you help as tastemakers as well
as creators ...
May 31, 11:59:07 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: check out http://magnatune.com
and http://jamendo.com for music, etc ... much more at
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Curators
May 31, 11:59:14 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: thanks for the url correction!
May 31, 11:59:27 PDT> *Mike Linksvayer*: Thanks everyone!
May 31, 11:59:47 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: Thank you! Can't wait to see more
from CC.
May 31, 11:59:48 PDT> *Alex*: Thanks for doing this, Mike
