Maninder Kahlon is the Director of Innovation at the San Francisco based Level Playing Field Institute, an organization dedicated to highlighting and removing invisible barriers to full and fair participation in higher education and professional workplaces.

One of the Institute’s projects is the Summer Math & Science Honors Academy (SMASH). SMASH students produce a podcast about their educational experiences called the SMASHcast.

 

Table of Contents

The following links can be followed to skip to particular parts of my conversation with Mini Kahlon. Your browser’s back arrow will return you to this table of contents. If you only read part of this interview, I recomend sections 4 and 5.  The entire interview is informative and inspiring, though.

The interview was done by Instant Messaging, and though I've cleaned it up and added links, I kept the basic format unchanged from the way the conversation occurred. 

1. About the Level Playing Field Institute
2. Implementing Colaborative Technologies
3. Building Organizational Support for New Tools
4. Teaching Podcasting
5. Cross cultural education in multi media
6. SMASH Cast Seeks Support via More Podcasting Training

 

About the Level Playing Field Institute

 

Marshall

Can you tell me some about the Level Playing Field Institute?

Mini

In brief, we're a non-profit with the mission of revealing and removing barriers to fairness, and real equal opportunity.

We focus a lot on what we call 'hidden barriers'

in higher education and professional workplaces.

In education we create model programs - highschool (SMASH), college (IDEAL) and professional schools that focus on revealing and removing barriers, then use the success of our students and the program

to convey the message that the playing field is tilted, and with a little bit of untilting or straightening out - we'd see a different world.

In addition to programs

we're a truly different non-profit organization.

we emphasize innovation - and I think we really walk the talk

First our physical space is shared with many different types of non-profits and we have joint lunches 2 days a week.

That kind of vision comes from the founders of the various non-profits - Freada Klein and Mitch Kapor.

The other orgs are the Open Source Applications foundation (OSAF) and Creative Commons, and others.

At Level Playing Field Institute I'm called the cross-cultural employee

because I speak it all - I'm focused on our social justice causes but have a science and tech - and open source background and sustained interest.

that’s just to say that when we have lunch we have very traditional non-profit folks mixed in with people who've worked in corporate branding (Level Playing Field Institute has employees with distinct backgrounds) chatting with software engineers

 

Implementing Colaborative Technologies

 

Marshall

So you're a tech person that really prioritizes face to face!

Mini

Yes, and there's a story to that too

After I got my Ph.D. in neuroscience I spent a year working at the Wheeler Center for the neurobiology of addiction

seeing if I could leverage what felt like new web tools then (1999) for scientists to enhance collaboration between neuroscientists studying addiction, but at different levels of organization.

molecular, cellular, systems and networks, behavioral, social

great idea, and got initial momentum when I sold the major Principal investigators with prototypes I built

but I found quickly that to really get people engaged for meaningful collaboration, i had to start face-to-face

and provide high quality glue in person

so, the core ended up being our weekly face-to-face meetitngs, and a marker of success was just how many scientists, with no time on their calendars, started showing up at the meetings.

Then, how many started using the tools - and how they used the tools

Marshall

did that end up working well?

Mini

it did for a short while, but we ran into a significant problem, for which the solution was yet to come ...

the solution was "open access" to primary literature

and in 1999- that hadn't even been accepted as an issue to be debated

for scientists, to use web-tools to depict dynamic relationships between different elements of a system one is studying

you need to couch any module with the primary research and its details that informs that module

without that, the tools were too superficial.

Then I got called by a friend/colleague who had started a software company to work on this other area where collaboration was flourishing

.... "open source software"!!

it felt like the area where one could really move in thinking about novel collaborative systems

Marshall

It seems that there are some parallels that could be made between that and some issues in the non profit world.

both technically and sociologically

Mini

well, i think in general when one thinks about using new tools - open source, web2.0 inspired, whatever

to catalyze collaboration, one needs to also assess whether the arena - the non-profits or problem spaces - are ready for collaboration.

and ask content-driven questions What might collaboration look like?

these are harder to assess by those driving the (fabulous) technology changes

Marshall

could you clarify that last sentence?

Mini

and the danger is always that in being driven by the passion of those transforming technology

you start with projects that may not be the best places to start

and an early failure could color future progress.

so, a simple example at work.

we introduced wikis (before my time)

it felt painful for people to even get an acount (yet another username/password)

and then there they were with pages they could collaborate on

but no real application.

I let it sit, and convinced my colleagues to not worry about it too much right then.

But also assured them there was potential, and we'd see it when the right application came along

Then, slowly I introduced different groups to the tool, when the task demanded it.

Marshall

by application, you mean the right use of a wiki I presume?

like subject matter

Mini

oh, I mean the real-world problem being solved

so, we had to assess some tools for building community Intranets for our various student populations

our creative person in-house was going to do a bunch of this, but wasn't sold on wikis

until we built a matrix uisng the wiki, and delegated out different products not just to him and myself but to our IT help who don't work solely with us but indeed with all the nonprofits here

(they don't sit near us, have a different level of expertise etc)

the wiki was the best tool for that project, and Sean bought into it

 

Building Organizational Support for New Tools

 

Marshall

How did the proccess of building organizational support for podcasts go?

Mini

After talking to our director Freada Klein, who was also cognizant of some of the possiblities, I did an assessment last year - a landscape assessment on new technologies, new communication modes, etc.

in that I certainly looked at the new modes of self-publishing, blogs -but also podcasting and video casting

Apart from looking at external trends in adoption, I also attended many different meetings and venues, shared what these tools meant in terms of the new world of communications they were engendering, helping to drive.

By the time I had ended my assessment I settled in my mind that one match was between podcasting and SMASH.

Others in the organization already had a sense of possibilities.

Because I already understood that tools are only as good as the project you apply them to

I went to our director of SMASH , Irene St. Roseman,

and explained my findings, and my suggestion that she use podcasting, a new form of creating radio programs, really easily, as a tool

in bringing our summer program students toether, we could help create some more sense of community, yet embedded in technology - and science, since the radio programs would be about science & technology.

Irene picked up immediately the potential - even if at the time she might not have been able herself to describe it to you.

I gave her enough time to feel completely comfortable with the concept.

Then I went into fast-forward mode with the students

 

Teaching Podcasting

 

 

Sample podcast (2 mins 45 sec), Anthony and I (Iris) Top High School Acceptence (link to written post)

 

Marshall

Were the kids ready for fast forward mode?

Mini

Yes they were, and - another population was too, in a different way.

Students from SMASH come together 2 saturdays a month during the academic year

when they come together, they come with their families - or at least one parent or guardian

for programs such as ours, where we're trying to break down barriers, we have to take a wholistic view of the environment - and families play a big part

Irene's really taught us well on that.

So I introduced podcasting to a group of about 80-100

and asked for my first set of volunteers for the next hours.

Actually on the day I introduced podcasting, we created our first podcast, live, right there in our large conference room/hall

that podcast is the first one on the site

I wanted to convey the fact that this was a fundamentally different approach to publishing or broadcasting.

so different - that in the twinkle of an eye, and with completley free software

just a computer and an internet connection

you could create this web-accessible and/or small device accessible radio broadcast.

In doing this with them (I asked for volunteers to contribute, you'll hear them on the podcast)

they were wow-ed, not just the students - but the parents

that's what was unexpected, I had forgotten that variable, going in.

you see, I had forgotten, in the language and passion around how open and freely accessible tools were, radio programs were, etc, in our brave new world of open source, web . , etc.

that there was still a serious information gap.

To clarify - many if not most of the families have computers

and at least a 56.6 connection

given falling prices of hardware and connectivity

these are not such big barriers anymore

yet, for all these connected people, they simply did not know how much the world had changed, in terms of possibilities.

The parents immediately got the implications

in terms of publishing many different radio channels, having that power in your hands

An example - one of the parents came to me to ask about podcasting for his church

I've offered to guide them through it, and have written a brief how-to

Marshall

so how have things proceeded?

Mini

well, I think really well

I took things cautiously at first, and though we started last October, I told the students we'd go through a test phase prior to going public

and that in January we'd together do an evaluation of our podcast experiment

I'd ask myself whether it was worth waking up at ungodly early hours on saturdays

(the podcast crew meets 2 saturdays a month)

and they'd ask themselves the same

I also wanted to ensure that they would own the project enough to come up with quality content - and at least, constantly improving content - that was about substantive issues or methodologies in science/tech etc.

teenagers can have short attention span

but in fact the students have really proven themselves, in my opinion.

there's rhetoric about podcasting (and other self-publishing tools) being about individual empowerment

and/or empowering niches/long tail, etc.

This really feels like empowerment in practice.

The lesson though, is that I had to proactively bring this normally unheard set of voices to the faucet - instead of just letting them wait for yet another 'trickle down' effect

that knowledge gap was the hidden barrier in this case.

Marshall

and things like editing and upload don't pose huge problems?

Mini

not really

as I mentioned, the parents got the vision of radio

but the students

got really excited with the editing tools

the moment they were bought in, was when I showed them CCmixter

and we played with adding tracks to their words.

Wow. There was no pulling them back after that point!

The next set of podcasts (after the introductory one) is a window into that session

now you'll notice that soon after they dropped the music, that’s because we started focusing on content.

we're going to bring back other production features, including music as they get used to preparing their materials, researching, speaking clearly, etc.

Most of these decisions come from them. I guide them, and give them standards against which I assess thier work

(what to reach for, etc.)

but they're figuring out their path quite a bit by themselves

Our methods need to match the philosophy of RSS-enabled feeds

Mini

do-it-yourself

What I mean is the set of concepts related (actually not just to blogs/pdocasts, etc)

but to web2.0 itself.

that blogs/podcasts etc. are about enabling people to build stuff themselves

in their own way

allowing for a celebration of individuality but also, against a backdrop where imperfections are part of the process

this sort of thinking parallels the process the students take with me

where I'm an enabler (their human 'blogger')

but they find their own paths to improving and publishing

Marshall

where did the standards you mentioned come from?

Mini

we listened to other podcasts and also just from me

I’m pretty blunt with them when I think something isn't too interesting, or shoddily done.

or just they haven't thought through something sufficiently

or they're just having fun with music and it's overpowering their words

Marshall

and they can handle that?

Mini

absolutley.

it’s so interesting, but all the research in education has been saying for a long time

that it's all about expectations.

I have high expectations of them, and in general they meet me there

there was a huge international study

about preparedness for students in science/math across various countries

yes, the U.S. did quite poorly

but the biggest lesson they learned from countries where preparedness seemed to be high

was consistently high expectations placed on students.

From the OECD: The results of PISA 2003 suggest that both students and schools perform best in a climate characterised by high expectations that are supported through strong teacher-student relations, students who are ready to invest effort and who show interest and lower levels of anxiety with mathematics, and a positive disciplinary climate. In most of the countries that performed well, local authorities and schools also have substantial responsibility for educational content and/or the use of resources, and many set out to teach heterogeneous groups of learners. For more information see the following OECD document.

we have real challenges in terms of time

you wouldn't believe how hours on a saturday speed by

we're just moving to getting studetns to post and do stuff off-site

and I keep pushing them to do stuff that's researched

and substantive

Marshall

kids!

Mini

which they love, but that means a chunk of time on thinking and planning-but they love it.

one of the smashcasters is our 'tech guru'

Carlo Combes

his blog is at http://news.synatek.org (he's the only one with his own blog - he builds his own computers, but had never podcasted)

 

Cross cultural education in multi media

 

 

Sample podcast (1 min 40 sec), Orion Macario interviews Jann Ramirez, Bshbababump/School Closure (link to written post)

 

Marshall

can you talk about some more of the cultural dimensions of the project or particular insights you've had doing cross cultural tech training with the students in SMASH?

Mini

yes.

in some ways

these students are just like other teenagers that like playing with technology

as I said, they love the tools, picking up a microphone, speaking into it, splicing music tracks in, etc.

but one difference is in how and what they talk about, even when it's related to science and math

so, when David (G. Miles III) and Maurice McMillan created a blog on how to create a podcast

instead of splicing in prerecorded tracks, David spliced in his own freestyling

and that gave him a different sense of ownership of the medium, because he'd played with it - on his own terms

Also, although our content is about science, math, technology

the reality of these students lives (they're all toppers - but in public schools that are very badly off)

is that there is no such thing as abstract academics

instead, all Jann Ramirez could think about for several sessions

is the upcoming turmoil in having to see his school shut down.

Or the Iris and Anthony conversation on her worry about not getting into the good public school in Kentucky

In a way, subject matter couldn't be imposed by me, by just saying 'talk about science in your classes'

that's just not their world

their world is - how do i get good grades

while picking up and looking after my two younger siblings

not knowing if my school will shut down

making sure I miss the gangs in my walk home

etc etc

I guess what I learned is their podcasts will have to be about their version of studying math and science

and that version certainly doesn't look like my own version

or default assumptions of what it means to try to be a good student in these fields

Marshall

given that, what role does this project aim to play in leveling the playing field between students of color and white students?

Marshall

class, etc.

Mini

sure.

It takes this tool that they may not have known about

and gets them to use it - (so we leveled the potential knowledge discrepancies)

and in this way own an emerging medium, at an early stage of its development.

normally, they would be the last to learn about podcasting.

by then, A-list teen podcasters would have been determined.

Now, they have a shot!

but also, we want to use this as a way for these young geeks of color to connect with others

One of the biggest hidden barriers for them, is to not see people that look like them in fields related to science and technology

role models/seniors - but also peers

i'm geek enough to know about the isolation one can feel in school

but for them it's even more stark

at one level it's just numbers.

so we're going to do outreach and try to get more students like them to learn about how easy it is to get their voices heard

and thus, enable community - something other students may have more easily

but is a barrier for our students.

 

SMASH Cast Seeks Support via More Podcasting Training

 

Marshall

what kinds of resources could you use to more effectively do your work?

Mini

The Level Playing Field Institute is doing an online fundraiser for audio production equipment.

I really need someone to come in and spend a concentrated amount of time (2 hours?) on teaching the students best tips on editing (so that they can go beyond their rough-and-ready approach) as well as how to handle interviews.

We use audacity.

They did some interviews with non-students initially, but found that it took real skills, and a much longer investment of time to edit interviews

Also anyone who regularly interviews people for podcasts, and is adept at the best shortcut approach to editing these.

 

Mini would like to extend her thanks to program director Irene St. Roseman for her wonderful ground work and support and to the students. Without their engagement as they’ve brought it, the project could not have been a sucess.